I've forgotten the thread re. the above,I think I posted it but someone recommended a book and asked me what I thought. It was "King of the Gypsies" I've read it it and it's cracker if you want to know about bare knuckle fighting bouts so,who ever it was who told me,thanks. Well worth reading and believable apart for the one passage where he said he drank 28 bottles of Newcastle Broon in an afternoon at some pub! I grew up on the stuff,even a Pikey couldn't do that. Great read though,thanks again.