One Canadian soldier killed, and five others wounded in a "friendly fire" incident. A-10s again. Makes me want to scream
details here
details here
Blue on Blue in Afghanistan
- Thread starter BootneckYank
- Start date
True enough, Deeps.
A blurb on aol does not a story make. There was a time when ANG pilots were some the best and most experienced pilots in the US Military, with Desert Storm being an example: The "Wild Weasel" planes that stuck AAA/SAM sites were largely flown by Guard/Reserve Pilots.
But, as of late they have been having issues, both at home and abroad.
But as you said,we dont have all the facts, or even know for sure who was flying the plane, or which unit, etc.
A blurb on aol does not a story make. There was a time when ANG pilots were some the best and most experienced pilots in the US Military, with Desert Storm being an example: The "Wild Weasel" planes that stuck AAA/SAM sites were largely flown by Guard/Reserve Pilots.
But, as of late they have been having issues, both at home and abroad.
But as you said,we dont have all the facts, or even know for sure who was flying the plane, or which unit, etc.
Oh come on! It's common knowledge that our Septic "friends" have taken out quite a few of their own as well as ours and, occasionally, the enemy. Whether they are National Guard or just trigger happy regulars is immaterial, the plain fact is that proper recognition is not practised by US forces.
The Basra Road in GW1, a RAF Tornado taken out in Telic 1 and many instances since - allies and own troops should have the reassurance that they are not going to be taken out by their own forces. The fog of war might have had credibilty in older conflicts, but not in this instant ID electronic age.
The Basra Road in GW1, a RAF Tornado taken out in Telic 1 and many instances since - allies and own troops should have the reassurance that they are not going to be taken out by their own forces. The fog of war might have had credibilty in older conflicts, but not in this instant ID electronic age.
The reason the yanks have a lot more ''Blue on blue''incidents is because
they fly many many more sorties than anybody else . You just get to hear
about our ''Blue on blue ''incidents . I was involved in a few on Telic 1.
The spams always get the bad press , they are fantastic pilots and
will the first there if the brown stuff hits the fan . I should know , i'm
a CR FAC on telic right now.
they fly many many more sorties than anybody else . You just get to hear
about our ''Blue on blue ''incidents . I was involved in a few on Telic 1.
The spams always get the bad press , they are fantastic pilots and
will the first there if the brown stuff hits the fan . I should know , i'm
a CR FAC on telic right now.
If you're a FAC, then you might be able to answer a question thats been on my mind for some time: Is there direct comms between the ground and air element?
I was in Marine Corps aviation, and close support of ground troops was our entire reason for existence. When our pilots were called in, they generaly were guided to target by a FAC, either airborne in an OV-10 Bronco, or on the ground with the grunts. We had a superb record, I might add. We never laid eggs in our own nest.
As was pointed out: We now fight in the electronic age, and I wonder if all this gadgetry thats supposed to make misidentification "impossible :roll: "
might actualy be stopping up the works. If the support request has to go through several relays, and back through the command net to the ready squadrons, the situation on the ground (which would be quite fluid), would have changed by the time the aircraft are rolling in hot.
At the end of the day, the poor S.O.B with the stick in his hand is going to carry the can, for he/she is the one who pulled the trigger. But general miscommunication has played a big part in these incidents, going back to WWII.
I was in Marine Corps aviation, and close support of ground troops was our entire reason for existence. When our pilots were called in, they generaly were guided to target by a FAC, either airborne in an OV-10 Bronco, or on the ground with the grunts. We had a superb record, I might add. We never laid eggs in our own nest.
As was pointed out: We now fight in the electronic age, and I wonder if all this gadgetry thats supposed to make misidentification "impossible :roll: "
might actualy be stopping up the works. If the support request has to go through several relays, and back through the command net to the ready squadrons, the situation on the ground (which would be quite fluid), would have changed by the time the aircraft are rolling in hot.
At the end of the day, the poor S.O.B with the stick in his hand is going to carry the can, for he/she is the one who pulled the trigger. But general miscommunication has played a big part in these incidents, going back to WWII.
When an FAC is working , he has a freq that has also been passed to
the /C. Its a long request system if you need air for routine tasks , but if
its ''Troops in contact'' it is sent to you right away . The FAC then checks
in the A/C,confirming how long its/they have (jets work in pairs) and what
ordanance its carrying . Authentication codes are swapped etc etc and
for the entire mission the A/C and FAC will be in comms with each other.
For the A/C to drop any ordanance it requires clearance from the FAC
on the ground , confirming the A/C is dropping on the same target as the
FAC is controlling the A/C onto . This is why it costs well over a million ££
to get an FAC combat ready .Thus ensuring blue on blue doesnt happen .
The one caveat to all of this is , is there is no qualified FAC on the ground
but the ground have comms with the A/C . The A/C can be ''talked'' on
to the target by a non-qualified person , however the responsility for
dropping the ordanance is left with the pilot .called ''buying the bomb''
A long winded answer but i hope helps.
the /C. Its a long request system if you need air for routine tasks , but if
its ''Troops in contact'' it is sent to you right away . The FAC then checks
in the A/C,confirming how long its/they have (jets work in pairs) and what
ordanance its carrying . Authentication codes are swapped etc etc and
for the entire mission the A/C and FAC will be in comms with each other.
For the A/C to drop any ordanance it requires clearance from the FAC
on the ground , confirming the A/C is dropping on the same target as the
FAC is controlling the A/C onto . This is why it costs well over a million ££
to get an FAC combat ready .Thus ensuring blue on blue doesnt happen .
The one caveat to all of this is , is there is no qualified FAC on the ground
but the ground have comms with the A/C . The A/C can be ''talked'' on
to the target by a non-qualified person , however the responsility for
dropping the ordanance is left with the pilot .called ''buying the bomb''
A long winded answer but i hope helps.
None of this explains why a Patriot took out a Tornado, why the identification of "own troops" has been so sporadic (remembering that it is not only aircrew that have "misidentified" friendly forces, nor why so many families died on the Basra road in openly civilian vehicles, in daylight and going away from any allied troops at risk.
"Sh1t happens" is not an acceptable excuse, as the Israelis have found to their everlasting shame in South Lebanon.
"Sh1t happens" is not an acceptable excuse, as the Israelis have found to their everlasting shame in South Lebanon.
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