BLIAR

imom1406

War Hero
FlagWagger said:
imom1406 said:
Politics now is about targetted marketing on minority issues due to the apathy ingendered in the majority of the population..

It is the majority that feels disenfranchised now, so the parties only now target swing constituents ...and interest groups that will deliver the majority in Parliament.

This then leaves a window open for extremism on both sides of the spectrum....thats the scarey bit......i'm buying me a sailboat....stocking it up with Jack Daniels and Ivor Dewdney's and foxtrotting oscar...
I have already TA88-ed to Canada, and are well stocked with essential supplies (Bombay Sapphire, Cadburys Dairy Milk, Schweppes tonic, Marmite, etc) but due to a slight cock-up on the logistic front we're now missing decent British cheese!
There you go, a new carreer for me and Whomping....Cheese Smuggling!!
 

imom1406

War Hero
OK i'm buying two boats The Wallace and The Grommett....Cheese Runners...problem will be when the RN starts anti cheese patrols on behalf of the EU...still a life on the ocean waves etc!!
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
imom1406 said:
OK i'm buying two boats The Wallace and The Grommett....Cheese Runners...problem will be when the RN starts anti cheese patrols on behalf of the EU...still a life on the ocean waves etc!!
Your major problem would likely be this end - the RCNR in vessels looking suspiciously like updated River Class MSFs vigourously defending the Canada's coastline from an influx of foreign dairy products!
 

imom1406

War Hero
FlagWagger said:
imom1406 said:
OK i'm buying two boats The Wallace and The Grommett....Cheese Runners...problem will be when the RN starts anti cheese patrols on behalf of the EU...still a life on the ocean waves etc!!
Your major problem would likely be this end - the RCNR in vessels looking suspiciously like updated River Class MSFs vigourously defending the Canada's coastline from an influx of foreign dairy products!
They'll have to catch me first....i want the whole of Canada addicted to Wensleydale in 5 years.....IMOM Head of the Stilton and Wensleydale Cartel.
 
start them on something soft like brie and then work up to the hard stuff. We'll be living like kings and wearing over sized chav jewellery before the decade is out
 
Just read Tony Bliar's written response to a resigning minister about 'loyalty'. This is from the man who was elected (and in his own words ' isa pretty straight kind of guy' :roll: ) on promises which he has totally ignored, reneged on, and who has himself been disloyal to the voters.

He uses the words 'Party and country' in the same sentence, he uses the word 'party' with an upper case letter and 'Country' with a lower case letter.

This about sums up the New Liebour ideal of party before country - remember the Communists ? - their credo was the same.
This lot have done their upmost, since being in power, to lay low (dare I say destroy?) the nation and to breakup the union.

Nuff said
 

brigham600

War Hero
percey99 said:
Have you ever tried doing his job ???
Has he ever TRIED doing ours (Armed Forces) - NO.

He is a complete idiot and has no idea how to run a government and the sooner he goes the better. :evil:
 

SILVER_FOX

War Hero
OK firstly - anyone bitching here who didn't vote last time is a hypocrite.

Second percy99 - not exactly an realistic question since none of us are likely to get that opportunity so we're left with trying to vote them out;

Thirdly - they've dug a big hole for themselves and are continuing to dig. Eventually they won't be able to climb out & get away with it and the next lot will get in.

Finally - we need a system which ties our political parties a maximum of eight years in power so that they can't stay long enough for the real corruption to come through. Who knows they might even begin to do some useful stuff in their last two years, if only for the thought of being remembered for making a useful contribution.

Standing by for incoming.

SF
 

bunnyjumper

Lantern Swinger
I think the point is that when Blairs government got in, most people - rightly or wrongly - would have voted for Blair as much as the party....In much the same way as Maggie T.

I think my beef is that for the party to replace the democratically elected Prime Minister, by trying to force him out, in my opinion amounts to little more than a non-military coup. Anyone who replaces Blair will replace him without the democratic vote of the people. If George Dubbaya were ousted, a new man would be elected, not imposed.

Apart from anything else, they should learn from the tories. Love her or hate her, the day Maggie was ousted was the beggining of the end for the Tory government. Labour take heed!!

By the way, I can't stand Blair, don't trust him and would like to ram his smarmy head down the nearest s**t filled head - but the point is he is the democratically elected PM, and if they want him out, they should call a general election, instead of doing all this back stabbing crap. Let the people decide - or isn't this a democracy anymore? (Or perhaps I've been deluding myself :lol: )
 

come_the_day

Lantern Swinger
As the Tories proved when they dumped Maggie and gave us the grey man, we vote for a political party, not a Prime Minister.

Nobody to blame but us, in that case, but when all the Tories had to offer were nonentities like Howard, Duncan-Smith, Ancram and co, it's hardly surprising that New Labour were able to wriggle under the wire.

It's still perfectly legit to spoil your vote, so all this crap about having to vote for somebody is just that, crap!
 

hobbit

War Hero
As one who has observed demockracy at work throughout the western world for some time now I have become a tad cynical. Just thought the contributers to this thread may find this ( below ) interesting. Lotta truth here IMHO
:D

Hobbit!

About the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of
Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:



1. From bondage to spiritual faith;

2. From spiritual faith to great courage;

3. From courage to liberty;

4. From liberty to abundance;

5. From abundance to complacency;

6. From complacency to apathy;

7. From apathy to dependence;

8. From dependence back into bondage "

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000 Presidential election:

Population of counties won by: Gore: 127 million; Bush: 143 million;

Square miles of land won by: Gore: 580,000; Bush: 2,427,000

States won by: Gore: 19; Bush: 29

Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Gore: 13.2; Bush: 2.1

Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the tax-paying citizens of this great country.
Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off government welfare..."

Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some 40 percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

Pass this along to help everyone realize just how much is at stake, knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom.

PS: No. 9: If the Senate grants amnesty and citizenship to 20 million criminal
invaders called illegals and they vote, then goodbye USA in less than 5 years.
 

bunnyjumper

Lantern Swinger
come_the_day said:
As the Tories proved when they dumped Maggie and gave us the grey man, we vote for a political party, not a Prime Minister.

Nobody to blame but us, in that case, but when all the Tories had to offer were nonentities like Howard, Duncan-Smith, Ancram and co, it's hardly surprising that New Labour were able to wriggle under the wire.

It's still perfectly legit to spoil your vote, so all this crap about having to vote for somebody is just that, crap!
You've misunderstood me then contradicted yourself.

1. Yes it is a load of crap to vote for a person, you should vote for the Party and it's policies, not the person. I totally agree. But then, unfortunately everyone over the age of 16 is allowed to vote and unfortunately that includes people who put more stock in what a person looks like than their policies 'cos in general they don't understand. People generally believe the hype about the person and vote on that basis. That's life - it happens whether we like it or not.

2. As you said (and so did I), the tories couldn't offer anyone the public liked, so they didn't get in - isn't that voting for the person and not the policies - as I said............ :?

The point still is that blair was VOTED PM, on the policies he put forward. Don't forget that a different man at the top will want to push different policies. Should the Labour Party want to replace him, it should be the voters who decide, not the funny handshake brigade, just because they want their man to have a crack at f***ing the country up some more. Or don't we live in a democracy anymore!!!???

I'm not standing up for Blair - I'm standing up for democracy. You know that thing we're trying to force on the middle east.
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
bunnyjumper said:
1. Yes it is a load of crap to vote for a person, you should vote for the Party and it's policies, not the person. I totally agree. But then, unfortunately everyone over the age of 16 is allowed to vote ...
Er - 18 actually, although there are some calls to extend it to younger people.

bunnyjumper said:
The point still is that blair was VOTED PM, on the policies he put forward. Don't forget that a different man at the top will want to push different policies.
Not quite - the policies of the Labour Party are contained in their manifesto - should Bliar be deposed, then the next leader whoever he may be, is still obliged to adopt the manifesto pledges - that's what they were elected on. However, in today's cult of personality, I agree that many people voted for Labour in order to secure Bliar as PM.

bunnyjumper said:
Should the Labour Party want to replace him, it should be the voters who decide, not the funny handshake brigade, just because they want their man to have a crack at f***ing the country up some more. Or don't we live in a democracy anymore!!!???
Yes we do (allegedly), however the only time the electorate get to choose a ruling party is at General Election time. If you want to influence who is PM you'll need to join whichever party is in Goverment and vote for your chosen candidate at a leadership election.

bunnyjumper said:
I'm not standing up for Blair - I'm standing up for democracy. You know that thing we're trying to force on the middle east.
Do as I say, not as I do - the current Western approach to geo-politic.
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Agree with SF's comment - people who do not vote but constantly moan about the state of the Government in this country should shut the feck up!

We have two constitutional rights in this country; to vote and to demonstrate, both without fear or intimidation. They are long- and hard-fought for privileges, which should be exercised as often as possible. If the voting masses choose to stay silent, arguing "What's the point?", then they should take a long hard look at our history and think about what our ancestors did to earn us that right. Political apathy leads to complacency, and we can't blam the Government for that.

The best way to voice your opinion is not to stay away from the Polling Stations; it is to attend and spoil your vote. The vote will still have to be counted and recorded. Similarly a few years ago when the RN introduced Retention Bonuses for certain branches. It was introduced because so many people in these branches had submitted their notice, thus taking positive action about their dissatisfaction about Service life. Positive action will result in a positive reaction; sitting in the Mess and dripping over your mates about it won't change anything.
 
Unfortunately the right to demonstrate without interference is gradually being eroded by the neo-nazis currently in office both central and local government, unless you are of the so-called minority - you can then wear masks, threaten death and cause damage without fear of prosecution - but try to distribute pamphlets about the Bible and Wham! the full force of the law is bounced off your head.
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
The idiom "I don't agree with what you're saying but I defend your right to say it" applies to all sides...
 
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