Blair objects to Forces Chiefs complaints about underfunding

Why do posters all compare TB with Maggie?

Under the Tories, there were problems, but at least they gave us a pride in our country, and armed forces who were fairly well equipped, and a very stable economy.
This lot get in, all goes to pot. Honours sold off, a PM who states the truth is 'how he sees it', corrupt and sleazy ministers who are brought back into office (not once but twice! :evil: ) the country's rights and sovereignty sold off, citizen's rights ignored, the public treated with the utmost contempt - need more be said?

Britain is not really much more than a banana republic under New labour - perhaps their logo should be the swasika superimposed on a red star

The Tories had their faults, but they never ran this country into the ground - 18 years of continued government should tell people that.
Some of them got careless and greedy and paid the price - it took less than four years for this lot to get even greedier.

Next... ?
 

slim

War Hero
Back to the Tories. Does that mean back to inflation running into double figures?. Does that mean the same sleaze as before? Will we be given the same lies? Remember the Falklands? If Maggie had acted sooner there would have been no war.
I am neither labour, conservative or a tree hugging libdem.
None of the parties today can be trusted to run the country in a decent manner.
The way it is going the national front win more votes at the next election, and that would be unforgivable.
Remember elections are not won they are lost.
 
Slim, we've already got the same sleaze as before! In fact, it never went away did it?
They (politicians) are ALL the same. Corrupt. I don't trust ANY of them.
When my 22 is up I want to move to either NZ or OZ, but the missus doesn't want to leave her family. Which is a shame, i'll miss her ;)
 
TB and MT get compared because they have both displayed exactly the same levels of arrogance in office, perhaps if I was old enough I might say the same about Churchill, certaily one gets that impression from biographies.

I suspect the NL chaps have got their noses in the trough faster and deeper because the statistics indicatedf they would not have as long to feather their nests. There were some who might have suggested that a country that had to move it's interest rates further up and down than a whores drawers and more often was also a bannana republic.

To be honest some things were better under the Tories but I for one was glad to see the back of them when they went, even though I did not have any great confidence that NL would be much better. As it is I am not sure the Tories have cleansed their house well enough yet to do an better than NL is doing today.

Perhaps there is some justification for the anarchist point of view that to restart one really has to destroy all then build on the ruins of the past.
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
Maxi_77 said:
One gets the impression that like many who have enjoyed Tony's long period in power that he is now so insulated from reality that all he sees is his own propoganda and spin. I suspect he doesn't realise that the senior officers have been trying to tell him how bad it was through the proper channels for years but all their comments have been spun by the time even Tony sees them.

That's my impression too - NooLab's spin machine is not just for the public, they hear only what they want to hear.

In the beginning was the Plan.
And then came the Assumptions.
And the assumptions were without form.
And the plan was without substance.
And darkness was upon the faces of the workers.
And they spoke among themselves saying, "It is a crock of shit and it stinks."
And the workers went unto their Supervisors and said, "It is a pail of dung and we cannot live with the smell."
And the supervisors went unto their Managers saying, "It is a container of organic waste and it is very strong such that none may abide by it."
And the managers went unto their Directors, saying, "It is a vessel of fertilizer and none may abide by it."
And the Directors spoke among themselves, saying to one another, "It contains that which aids plant growth and it is very powerful."
And the Vice Presidents went to the President, saying unto him, "This new plan will actively promote growth and vigor of the company with very powerful effects."
And the president looked upon the plan and saw that it was good.
And the plan became Policy.
And this is how shit happens.
 
Maxi_77 said:
One gets the impression that like many who have enjoyed Tony's long period in power that he is now so insulated from reality that all he sees is his own propoganda and spin. I suspect he doesn't realise that the senior officers have been trying to tell him how bad it was through the proper channels for years but all their comments have been spun by the time even Tony sees them. So now they go public, and for Dear Tne that is 'off message' and thus improper, after all he got where he is today by making the party get 'on message' 100% of the time.

Thanks for feeding me the line "I suspect he doesn't realise that the senior officers have been trying to tell him how bad it was through the proper channels for years but all their comments have been spun by the time even Tony sees them." I can trot out AGAIN one my stored dits thats fits

.
Read and understand, for this is the past, present and the future.

In the beginning was the plan.
And then came the assumptions.
And the assumptions were without form.
And the plan was completely without substance.
And the darkness was upon the face of the Junior Rates.
And they spoke among themselves saying,
"It is a bucket of shit and it stinketh."

And the Junior Rates went unto their Senior Rates, and sayeth:
"It is a pail of dung, and none can abide the odour thereof"

And the Senior Rates went unto the Coxswain and sayeth unto him,
"It is a container of excrement, and it is very strong,
such that none can abide it."

And the Coxswain went unto the Jimmy and sayeth, "It is a
vessel of fertilizer, and none can abide its strength." And the
Jimmy spoke with the Old Man and Staff Officers, saying one to
another, "It contains that which aids plant growth, and is very strong."

And the Old Man went unto the Captain Submarine Squadron and sayeth to him,
"It promotes growth, and is very powerful."

And the Captain S/M’s went unto the Flag Officer Submarines, and
Sayeth unto him, "This new plan will actively promote moral and
fighting efficiency among Submariners."

And the Flag Officer Submarine looked upon the plan, and saw that it was good and he told the Comander In Chief British Forces and the Cabinet

And the plan became policy.

And this is how shit lands upon you.

Nutty
 

come_the_day

Lantern Swinger
Re: Blair objects to Forces Chiefs complaints about underfun

No politician of any party can be trusted, or they wouldn't be politicians!

Read the history of "The greatest Englishman", one Winston S Churchill and see how many cockups were his making, from the Dardanelles campaign onwards. Look at the so-called heroes of British history, like Kitchener and Gordon and see how many of the ordinary British soldiery were sacrificed on the pyres of ego.

It's been said many times before, but the overriding reason why people shouldn't vote for our politicians is that they want to be politicians in the first place. Give me a benign dictatorship, anyday.
 
Re: Blair objects to Forces Chiefs complaints about underfun

come_the_day said:
No politician of any party can be trusted, or they wouldn't be politicians!

Read the history of "The greatest Englishman", one Winston S Churchill and see how many cockups were his making, from the Dardanelles campaign onwards. Look at the so-called heroes of British history, like Kitchener and Gordon and see how many of the ordinary British soldiery were sacrificed on the pyres of ego.

It's been said many times before, but the overriding reason why people shouldn't vote for our politicians is that they want to be politicians in the first place. Give me a benign dictatorship, anyday.

It is interesting to see how much revisionism there is in history today, Yes the Dardanelles was Churchills idea, but the real cause of the failure was the way the plan was implemented. Churchill as a man of some honour fell on his sword for it, but there were many below him who deserved that much more than him.

As to the benign dictatorshor I suspect that Dear Leader Tnes would suggest that that is what we already have under his guiding hand. The real problem with dictatorship is that once established it is self serving rather than people serving. The Romans godd bless their cotton socks under the republic realised that there would be times when they could gain strength from unitary rather than democratic power and had an elected dictator for a fixed and short term, a concept that has not survived perhaps because we have realised that if you give some one absolute power they may not want to give it back, and you have given then the means to keep it.
 

McHammock

Lantern Swinger
Re: Blair objects to Forces Chiefs complaints about underfun

[quote="Maxi_77
It is interesting to see how much revisionism there is in history today, Yes the Dardanelles was Churchills idea, but the real cause of the failure was the way the plan was implemented. Churchill as a man of some honour fell on his sword for it, but there were many below him who deserved that much more than him.
quote]

Maxi, I think you may find that Churchill did not "fall on his sword for it", he was sacked ! & had to be dragged kicking & screaming from the Admiralty. Not just revisionism, more a case of reading sources other than Churchill's own self serving autobiographical volumes.
 
slim said:
Does anyone else think that perhaps the American system which limits Presidents to two terms in office would perhaps work well here for Prime Ministers. Blair like Thatcher was a OK for the first term of office, by the end of his second term he was misleading the public, and now I just cannot trust him. It was similar with Maggie. The position seems to got to their heads and they start believing their own spin.

Neville Chamberlain believed his own spin from the outset. It all depends upon the character of the individual in office and their susceptability to the vanity of office and the tendency of power to corrupt.
 
Re: Blair objects to Forces Chiefs complaints about underfun

McHammock said:
[quote="Maxi_77
It is interesting to see how much revisionism there is in history today, Yes the Dardanelles was Churchills idea, but the real cause of the failure was the way the plan was implemented. Churchill as a man of some honour fell on his sword for it, but there were many below him who deserved that much more than him.
quote]

Maxi, I think you may find that Churchill did not "fall on his sword for it", he was sacked ! & had to be dragged kicking & screaming from the Admiralty. Not just revisionism, more a case of reading sources other than Churchill's own self serving autobiographical volumes.

I was not basing my comment on his autobiography, rather a biography.
 
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