Blair objects to Forces Chiefs complaints about underfunding

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Always_a_Civvy, Jan 13, 2007.

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  1. It is reported in today's Guardian (13 January 2007) that TB has apparently warned Service Chiefs that if they keep complaining about the state of investment, etc in the British Armed Services it will undermine the public's support for Britain undertaking operations abroad and in the international theatre.,,1989463,00.html

    Presumably he wants them to conceil from the public the worrying state of our defences and the reality that government reductions in expenditure continue to reduce, rather than increase, let alone maintain, our ability to operate in the international sphere?

    If there's one thing they should NOT DO, it is APPEASE TB and shut up. They need to continue to speak out and indeed to speak out more often and more forcefully. The electorate should be left in no doubt that those serving in the front line do not share the PM's rose tinted view of the state of our defences and in particular the ability of the RN to operate out-of-area in time of an emergency with ever declining resources and low personnel morale.

  2. Re: Blair objects to Forces Chiefs complaints about underfun

    Agree totally that Bliars spin machine should come under heavy fire from our lords and masters. He looked exceedingly worried with deep frown lines on his forehead yesterday - perhaps realization of his legacy is finally setting-in with our hoped-to-be (not) elderstatesman as he approaches retirement? History will indeed tell its own story.
  3. Re: Blair objects to Forces Chiefs complaints about underfun

    The big problem is the unreliability of the news papers. I can see why TB might say that whilst they are right to point out difficiencies, they must resist the temptation of lowering morale by putting things in extreme terms.

    At present we have an excellent (if small) armed forces and we have shortages across the board. My experiences are they have meant everyone was told to tighten their belts rather than the deep cuts the papers threaten. There is a risk however that the argument will be made that we just can't afford a war fighting military and so should retreat into having a home guard and a UN peace keeping force, like Ireland.

    I fear that there are many Guardian readers who would welcome that prospect; I for one do not!
  4. Re: Blair objects to Forces Chiefs complaints about underfun

    I suspect that many fellow Guardian readers would not actually want such an extreme outcome, though there are certainly some who would like such a scenario to arise. :roll:
  5. Re: Blair objects to Forces Chiefs complaints about underfun

    People have died because of a lack of equipment.
    I wouldn't call that a call to tighten our belts at all.
    I would call that a fundamental lack of funding and preparation by our government. Not as a whole of course, just defence.
    Public support for our operations are already at an all time low. The general public generally have great faith and confidence in our armed forces as a whole but have no faith or confidence in the people (ministers) sending us to do jobs without the correct equipment or support required. And don't start me on pay!!! :)
  6. chieftiff

    chieftiff War Hero Moderator

    Re: Blair objects to Forces Chiefs complaints about underfun

    I think you have hit the nail on the head there, reading the article quickly I got the impression that this was something TB had said after his speech yesterday, on re-reading it I realised that this is nothing more than the authors' (I use that term loosely when referring to a Guardian Journalist!) take on the same speech that I have now watched twice without any hint of this assumption!
  7. We've been tightening our belts for years now - all that's left holding us together is morale. Promotion prospects going down the pan are more likely to hit morale than Senior Officers commenting there is no cash.
  8. I personally don't think its morale holding us together any more. The RN has been run on goodwill for quite a while (come in early or when on leave and go home late with no thanks) and this is finally running out. Senior rates will think twice before putting themselves out these days (quite rightly so imo) because it all adds up to nothing anymore. Goodwill gets taken for granted far too much.
  9. The service chiefs should be shouting louder, if anything. I believe that the public realise the need for Blair's "hard power", it's up to the defence staff to make them realise that we need some more cash to keep it up. Maybe if they can get the public on the side of the forces then finally the government will be forced into accepting its duty of care.
  10. One gets the impression that like many who have enjoyed Tony's long period in power that he is now so insulated from reality that all he sees is his own propoganda and spin. I suspect he doesn't realise that the senior officers have been trying to tell him how bad it was through the proper channels for years but all their comments have been spun by the time even Tony sees them. So now they go public, and for Dear Tne that is 'off message' and thus improper, after all he got where he is today by making the party get 'on message' 100% of the time.
  11. Does anyone else think that perhaps the American system which limits Presidents to two terms in office would perhaps work well here for Prime Ministers. Blair like Thatcher was a OK for the first term of office, by the end of his second term he was misleading the public, and now I just cannot trust him. It was similar with Maggie. The position seems to got to their heads and they start believing their own spin.
  12. I think that having a general election fixed to every 3 years would be a good idea, coupled with the American two terms wassname.
  13. Why do posters all compare TB with Maggie?

    Under the Tories, there were problems, but at least they gave us a pride in our country, and armed forces who were fairly well equipped, and a very stable economy.
    This lot get in, all goes to pot. Honours sold off, a PM who states the truth is 'how he sees it', corrupt and sleazy ministers who are brought back into office (not once but twice! :evil: ) the country's rights and sovereignty sold off, citizen's rights ignored, the public treated with the utmost contempt - need more be said?

    Britain is not really much more than a banana republic under New labour - perhaps their logo should be the swasika superimposed on a red star

    The Tories had their faults, but they never ran this country into the ground - 18 years of continued government should tell people that.
    Some of them got careless and greedy and paid the price - it took less than four years for this lot to get even greedier.

    Next... ?
  14. Back to the Tories. Does that mean back to inflation running into double figures?. Does that mean the same sleaze as before? Will we be given the same lies? Remember the Falklands? If Maggie had acted sooner there would have been no war.
    I am neither labour, conservative or a tree hugging libdem.
    None of the parties today can be trusted to run the country in a decent manner.
    The way it is going the national front win more votes at the next election, and that would be unforgivable.
    Remember elections are not won they are lost.
  15. Slim, we've already got the same sleaze as before! In fact, it never went away did it?
    They (politicians) are ALL the same. Corrupt. I don't trust ANY of them.
    When my 22 is up I want to move to either NZ or OZ, but the missus doesn't want to leave her family. Which is a shame, i'll miss her ;)
  16. Well put Lamri!!
  17. TB and MT get compared because they have both displayed exactly the same levels of arrogance in office, perhaps if I was old enough I might say the same about Churchill, certaily one gets that impression from biographies.

    I suspect the NL chaps have got their noses in the trough faster and deeper because the statistics indicatedf they would not have as long to feather their nests. There were some who might have suggested that a country that had to move it's interest rates further up and down than a whores drawers and more often was also a bannana republic.

    To be honest some things were better under the Tories but I for one was glad to see the back of them when they went, even though I did not have any great confidence that NL would be much better. As it is I am not sure the Tories have cleansed their house well enough yet to do an better than NL is doing today.

    Perhaps there is some justification for the anarchist point of view that to restart one really has to destroy all then build on the ruins of the past.
  18. FlagWagger

    FlagWagger Book Reviewer

    That's my impression too - NooLab's spin machine is not just for the public, they hear only what they want to hear.

    In the beginning was the Plan.
    And then came the Assumptions.
    And the assumptions were without form.
    And the plan was without substance.
    And darkness was upon the faces of the workers.
    And they spoke among themselves saying, "It is a crock of shit and it stinks."
    And the workers went unto their Supervisors and said, "It is a pail of dung and we cannot live with the smell."
    And the supervisors went unto their Managers saying, "It is a container of organic waste and it is very strong such that none may abide by it."
    And the managers went unto their Directors, saying, "It is a vessel of fertilizer and none may abide by it."
    And the Directors spoke among themselves, saying to one another, "It contains that which aids plant growth and it is very powerful."
    And the Vice Presidents went to the President, saying unto him, "This new plan will actively promote growth and vigor of the company with very powerful effects."
    And the president looked upon the plan and saw that it was good.
    And the plan became Policy.
    And this is how shit happens.
  19. Thanks for feeding me the line "I suspect he doesn't realise that the senior officers have been trying to tell him how bad it was through the proper channels for years but all their comments have been spun by the time even Tony sees them." I can trot out AGAIN one my stored dits thats fits

    Read and understand, for this is the past, present and the future.

    In the beginning was the plan.
    And then came the assumptions.
    And the assumptions were without form.
    And the plan was completely without substance.
    And the darkness was upon the face of the Junior Rates.
    And they spoke among themselves saying,
    "It is a bucket of shit and it stinketh."

    And the Junior Rates went unto their Senior Rates, and sayeth:
    "It is a pail of dung, and none can abide the odour thereof"

    And the Senior Rates went unto the Coxswain and sayeth unto him,
    "It is a container of excrement, and it is very strong,
    such that none can abide it."

    And the Coxswain went unto the Jimmy and sayeth, "It is a
    vessel of fertilizer, and none can abide its strength." And the
    Jimmy spoke with the Old Man and Staff Officers, saying one to
    another, "It contains that which aids plant growth, and is very strong."

    And the Old Man went unto the Captain Submarine Squadron and sayeth to him,
    "It promotes growth, and is very powerful."

    And the Captain S/M’s went unto the Flag Officer Submarines, and
    Sayeth unto him, "This new plan will actively promote moral and
    fighting efficiency among Submariners."

    And the Flag Officer Submarine looked upon the plan, and saw that it was good and he told the Comander In Chief British Forces and the Cabinet

    And the plan became policy.

    And this is how shit lands upon you.

  20. Re: Blair objects to Forces Chiefs complaints about underfun

    No politician of any party can be trusted, or they wouldn't be politicians!

    Read the history of "The greatest Englishman", one Winston S Churchill and see how many cockups were his making, from the Dardanelles campaign onwards. Look at the so-called heroes of British history, like Kitchener and Gordon and see how many of the ordinary British soldiery were sacrificed on the pyres of ego.

    It's been said many times before, but the overriding reason why people shouldn't vote for our politicians is that they want to be politicians in the first place. Give me a benign dictatorship, anyday.

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