Blair jumping on the bandwagon?

Does anyone think the pressure from the ex-services community is getting to TB, coming out saying he agreed with what Maggie did in 82.
We (ex-service) seem to be getting a bit more press these days & we are all going on about poor equipment, lack of ships & hospitals etc with nothing positive towards him & his govt.

 

Be honest, is there a bandwagon he or his cronies HAVEN'T jumped on?

 

Part of Maggie's legacy was how she handled the Falkland Crisis. TB hasn't a hope in hell of reproducing the same amount of respect and support she showed to the services back in 82.

 

Guys, just a reminder, in this forum we always include a link to the story under discussion wherever possible.

Thanks

PTP

 

I think you would do well to remember that the Falklands 'Conflict' was avoidable but it got that woman re-elected. As for lack of equipment 3Cdo Brigade does not have that problem in Afghanistan .I am glad I left to pension in 85 before the Andrew turned into a load of bleating babies with women onboard to boot.

 

"Bleating babies"....well your entitelled to your opinion just as I am, and in my opinion your a condesending [email protected] I'm glad you left in 85 because thats when I joined.

 

As you said finknottle is entitled to his opinion. What he has to say makes a great deal of sense. Maggie needed the Falklands to get re-elected. The conflict was avoidable but she completely mishandled it.
As for women at sea, many still serving have reservations on this point.

 

The Demise of Jack Tar......

The traditional male sailor was not defined by his looks. He was defined by his attitude; his name was Jack Tar. He was a happy go lucky sort of a bloke; he took the good times with the bad.
He didnt cry victimisation, bastardisation, discrimination or for his mum when things didnt go his way.
He took responsibility for his own, sometimes, self-destructive actions.

He loved a laugh at anything or anybody. Rank, gender, race, creed or behaviour, it didnt matter to Jack, he would take the piss out of anyone, including himself. If someone took it out of him he didnt get offended; it was a natural part of life. If he offended someone else, so be it. Free from many of the rules of polite society, Jacks manners were somewhat rough. His ability to swear was legendary.

He would stand up for his mates. Jack was extravagant with his support to those he thought needed it. He may have been right or wrong, but that didnt matter. Jacks mate was one of the luckiest people alive.

Jack loved women. He loved to chase them to the ends of the earth and sometimes he even caught one. (Less often than he would have you believe though) His tales of the chase and its conclusion win or lose, is the stuff of legends.

Jacks favourite drink was beer, and he could drink it like a fish. His actions when inebriated would, on occasion, land him in trouble. But, he took it on the chin, did his punishment and then went and did it all again.

Jack loved his job. He took an immense pride in what he did. His radar was always the best in the fleet. His engines always worked better than anyone elses. His eyes could spot a contact before anyone elses and shoot at it first. It was a matter of personal pride. Jack was the consummate professional when he was at work and sober.

He was a bit like a mischievous child. He had a gleam in his eye and a larger than life outlook.
He was as rough as guts. You had to be pig headed and thick skinned to survive. He worked hard and played hard. His masters tut-tutted at some of his more exuberant expressions of joie de vivre, and the occasional bout of number 9s or stoppage of leave let him know where his limits were.

The late 20th Century and on, has seen the demise of Jack. The workplace no longer echoes with ribald comment and bawdy tales. Someone is sure to take offence. Where as, those stories of daring do and ingenuity in the face of adversity, usually whilst pissed, lack the audacity of the past.

A wicked sense of humour is now a liability, rather than a necessity. Jack has been socially engineered out of existence. What was once normal is now offensive. Denting someone elses over inflated opinion of their own self worth is now a crime.


And so a culture dies...

flumpmallett 30/11/2006. Spot on flumpmattett finknottle 24-03-2007

 

Slim I'm not disputing that bit, the bit I have objected to was "Bleating babies", I'm sure when you and he joined the same comment was made by the older hands about you, and will be made by todays new recruit when he leaves in 2029, pointless of me moaning really but I thought I'd stick up for the present generation.

 

nice to see you are upto date then.......only 22 years outside the fence? :twisted: :twisted:
there have been several instances in the past couple of years that proves the RN is still as well motivated, trained and able to act as a cohiesive unit as in the days of yor when you were in. :twisted:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2349449.stm

as for play time.........I think you'll find the boys AND girls are quite capable of emulating and in some cases thrashing out of sight some of the runs ashore you may have had :shock: :shock:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/5071736.stm

 

The RN may be well motivated and well trained. However they are no longer well equipped. I also left in 1985 and the navy that I left was a shadow of the one that I had joined 22 years earlier.
This through no fault of the serving members but due to political mismanagement. We lost ships in the Falklands because politicians had robbed of of real aircraft carriers. Now the situation is even worse than then. We are no longer the formidable force we once were.

 

I wouldn't say that lack of media attention means there isn't a problem with equipment out there at present.

But on topic, it's interesting watching the movement at the moment with an imminent presidential handover and the Comprehensive Spending Review ongoing. There are lots of platitudes but I wouldn't be all that confident that we'll get the money needed to actually do the job.

 

Interesting to note that the Royal Marines pro rata do very well out of the Pussers budget.

 

Maggie in 1982 had a viable Navy----albeit the AEW capability was missing
regarding the own fleet protection . Loss of ships could have been worse
the Argies had/still have a potent arsenal of weapons .

The greatest difference was the fact that the Armed Forces were employed on a set piece mission---- they overcame and did the job --no problem.

IN Iraq and Afghanistan ----------------no chance of the lads getting a well done come home to a hero's welcome because both locations are a no win situation ---------------and also the reasons for being deployed were and still are suspect .

 

Yes....the one that will get them out of power

 

That would be the bandwagon of extreme folly then. Having said that if that gang do get voted in it will be interesting to watch when the countries finances go tits up and many of those who voted them in will justly suffer.

 

Gordon Brown inherited a 'Golden Economy' which he has steadily whittled away, the national debt is growing yeat on year, taxes are at the highest in decades, economic growth is practically at a standstill, half the countries gold reserve was sold off when gold was at its lowest price ever and inflation is on the up and up. Please enlighten me, how the hell can they screw the countrie finances if they get elected.
Gordon Brown made 1 good financial descision - he gave the bank of england contol over interest rates, other wise they would be through the roof.

 

Do you think the Tories would ever have brought in the minimum wage? More likely they would have implemented a maximum one! Labour also god rid of the anachronism where officers were awarded the cross and the troops a medal, surely you must agree with that good move?

 

As far as service personnel getting medals, that should be even ground, although I did'nt know that there had ever been any difference.

On the Minimum wage in general a good thing, but it has a number of draw backs:
1. A large number of employees had there hours reduced as many smaller firms could not afford the min wage
2. The number of apprentiships available has fallen over the past several years due in part to the laws governing apprentices and the minimum wage (especially those aged 18 or over when they want to start an appreticeship)

As for setting a maximum wage, prehaps not a bad idea especially for MP's who have awarded them selves a number of inflation busting increases in salery and allowances.

 

Well, actually Mr Finknottle, it was John Major who shook up the medal class system.