Big Issue

Discussion in 'Diamond Lil's' started by finknottle, May 30, 2007.

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  1. I have recently had cause to visit 2 of our cities namely Glasgow and Portsmouth, in both cities there were Romanian gypsies selling the big issue. I am happy now and again to help out our indigenous down on their luck homeless but I draw the line at helping these dubious foreigners and more to the point why are they allowed to sell this publication in the first place?
  2. How about because they're entitled to live in this country and the Big Issue organisation obviously isn't as bigotted as you seem to be?

    How about being proud of the fact that people actually think our country is worth coming to and appreciate the fact that they are trying to earn some money honestly rather than resorting to begging or crime if they don't have the money to live a comfortable lifestyle.

    The Big Issue is a product which is sold for profit. What's more, selling the big issue is not an easy option.

    Care to reconsider your views?
  3. Let's go to the UK and sell the big issue. your having a laugh!

    Bigotted! My best oppo is English.
  4. I'm with finknottle on this one… letting the Rumanian gypsies into Britain was a fucking insanity. They are the dregs of Romanian society and lived by crime, begging and prostitution, always have, always will. The Rumanians were seriously well chuffed the day us fucking idiots opened the door to the gypsies and were more than happy to help them on their way, often at gunpoint.

    Here's a concept… come to Britain and can't find work? Fuck off back to Rumania.
  5. Levers_Aligned

    Levers_Aligned War Hero Moderator

    Oh, Jesus no! Them there coons and pakis are the blight of mankind, I tells yer! Even them pakis from Romania ... terrorists ... every stinkin' one of them.

    The mere fact that businesses routinely rip this fucking country off for tax breaks (Murdoch, anyone?), shit PFI scandals (Mapeley, anyone?) and countless other PWC-led scams is way, way above the firing arcs of any of us lesser mortals. Yeah, it's the immigrants. Blame them fuckers.

  6. Sorry guys,
    I will quite merrily swoop past some person saying "moni plz" to buy a copy of BI from someone that I can hold a quick conversation with. Each to his own :)
  7. Brains, what preceisly about finknottle's post was bigoted?

    "Entitled" to live in this country? "Bigoted" to discriminate between British and foreigner? Yes, this country is worth coming to - for an easy ride. "Proud" of that? FFS. If they don't have the money to live a comfortable lifestyle - they could try Romania, where it's cheaper.

    Care to defend your views?
  8. I'm pretty much in agreement too. I have no issue with the big issue and have bought it on occasion but I am always careful that any money I give away in the name of charity or similar ends up in the hands of Brits or organisations that exist purely to cater for the needs of our own.

    I'm not racist, nor xenophobic or anything like it. I simply believe that the money spinning machine does well enough in looking out for those in need abroad and the government bolsters this by adding millions in aid. On a proportionate basis and in the hope of balancing things a little I am a firm believer in looking out for our own who are so often forgotten.

  9. Gypsies suffer horrible persecution all across Eastern Europe. I rarely buy the Big Issue as its a bit boring anyway. Those who were keen to see us all living as one happy family (HA!) should have thought of what would happen when the wall came down and all barriers to social stability (ring any bells by the way?) were removed. ... reap the whirlwind ...
  10. Oh, how I love this "entitled" comment. I have a friend who has come over from the States and has been able to get a 12 month gap year visa. She has a job with special needs kids, teaching them about music, and was offered to her in advance. I've had to stand as a referee for her with the Embassy so that she can get into this country even for a short period of time.

    Yet. Yet. Yet. There seem to be so many people who are "entitled" to live here, who come over from some armpit country in eastern Europe, live on the streets, beg for money and abuse the locals when they don't get it.

    I wonder who I'd rather have - someone educated who has to beg to be let in, or someone who can't get a job in their own country and who can't speak any English who's just after the dole and a job selling Big Issue. I wonder..
  11. Sat on a table next to three big issue sellers in Star Bucks some weeks. All there, wearing their Id cards and carrying bundles of Big Issues, drinking coffee!!! Must of been power lunching.....
  12. Homeless people selling Razzle magazine?
    Just a thought.
  13. Big issue sellers are a pain in the arse, period.
    Homeless my arse, who needs to be homeless in a welfare state?
    Who needs to be homeless or begging when there is an army to join?
    Lazy, layabout arseholes.
  14. Agree 100%, for my wife to visit the UK I have to provide 6 moths bank statements and pay slips, proof of house ownership, marriage certs. copies of my passport, a letter from her company syaing she has been granted leave and proof of her land ownership here. They make you practicaly beg for a visitors visa to visit for a poxy 3 weeks, to MY country with a mamber of My family.
    But still the gypos' keep coming.....
    Bitter? Yeah, just a bit.
  15. I dont buy it. If I want to contribute then I donate to the Salvation Army as they help the homeless and those down on their luck, whether I give money or old clothes/books for them to sell depends on how much cleaning I been doing.

    I also support
    Cancer Research/MacMillan Nurses - Lost my mum to Cance
    MS Research - My Dad
    And GOSH

    I wont give people in the street money OR those who beg on the underground (do they still do that?)
  16. Exodus: Delving into the mindset of Romania's migrants as they seek a new life in Britain

    By SUE REID - More by this author »Last updated at 16:30pm on 21st May 2007
    Comments (8)

    Behind his large mahogany desk decked with the blue-and-yellow flag of the European Union, the mayor of the Romanian town of Tandarei gives a weary sigh as he is shown a Daily Mail picture of 21 newcomers to Britain.

    "Yes, I know most of them," says Vasile Sava after scrutinising the photograph taken 1,500 miles away in Slough, Berkshire. "They are the Demitrie family. I recognise the big one called Ion, and his relative, Constantin.

    "Of course, they are with you now. Six hundred people have left our town and more will go to your country."

    Heading for England? Pony carts remain the transport of choice in the town of Tandarei

    He continued: "When these people get rich they send their relatives money to build fancy homes here with your English pounds," he adds with a hint of annoyance.

    "There are 30 or 35 of such housing monstrosities in Tandarei. It is so many that I have introduced a ban on any more being built."

    Mr Sava, 39, gazes out of the window of his mayoral office at his town, a little over 100 miles from Romania's capital Bucharest and just off the new motorway to the Black Sea, built with EU money.

    The streets are neat and free of litter, but they turn quickly into dusty lanes where gipsies have made their homes for 300 years.

    Outside the tiny houses, some little more than shacks, children play with sticks in the mud.

    They jump up every so often to dodge the ponies pulling wooden carts with Roma families on board. It is a method of transport which has served them well for centuries.

    But now, says the mayor, the Roma people are deserting his town.

    Our green and pleasant new home: The Daily Mail picture of the 21-strong Demitrie family in Slough

    "Tandarei is in decline," he admits. "One in every eight men is without a job and many of those are the gipsies.

    "Their eyes turn towards other countries. Here they get £5 a month in child benefit and nothing more. In your country they get more help from the state and that is why they go there."

    The exodus to Britain from Romania and Bulgaria began on January 1, when the two former Communist nations became EU members and won the right for their citizens to live in the UK.

    The Romanian government reported last week that 200,000 from the two countries have left this year - 50,000 a month - enough to set up a new city the size of Southampton.

    No one - including the Government - really knows how many thousands more migrants from the ex-Soviet bloc are in Britain because the official Whitehall tally ignores the jobless, the self-employed and those working in the black market.

    The result is that councils all over the country are struggling to cope. Hospitals are overburdened, schools are teaching hundreds of pupils with little English and housing departments say they are running out of money.

    Slough, where 100 of the Demetrie family from Tandarei have arrived since January, is no exception.

    By the beginning of May, 88 Romanian gipsy children, apparently without parents, had turned up at the civic centre.

    Some are only ten, others in their early teens are pregnant or holding babies.

    Under British laws all unaccompanied minors - wherever they are from - have to be cared for by the council and given state benefits. To date, this has cost Slough £200,000.

    By the end of the year it will be nearer £1million. And that's if not a single further child turns up.

    But this is as likely as a piece of heather making a wish come true, according to 39-year- old Marin Octavious, who lives in Tandarei with his wife and ten children.

    The oldest is 22 and the youngest was born just before Christmas.

    Jobless and - he says - penniless, Marin is one of the elders of the gipsy community and in a perfect position to explain why so many are heading for Britain, because he has tried life in London himself.

    In 2002, he smuggled himself and his family in a freight train across Europe, a journey he says which meant hiding in darkness in a crate for nearly a week.

    "Even my little children had to stay quiet until we arrived in Tottenham," he says.

    He would have stayed, claiming political asylum - citing racial discrimination in Eastern Europe because he is a gipsy - but his claim was rejected.

    "I liked life in your country," he says. "Your government gave my family a flat and £720 a month in benefits.

    "They were good times. But I couldn't find work because I only spoke a few words of your language. Like other gipsy families living there, my family earned extra money by begging in Oxford Street."

    However, he did bring back some money. He now has a new motorbike and a house in Tandarei. "Of course, that's what our people do when they go to your country.

    "It's impossible to make any cash in Romania. I can't even afford to send my children to school because of the cost of books and clothes. One day I would like to go back."

    If he does he will not be alone. No one knows that better than Dan Cristescu. He is a trade union president in Romania and was sent to study at Ruskin College, Oxford, by his union.

    For six years, on his return to Bucharest, he ran a committee to help Roma families go to school, train for work and stop begging on the streets. He likes them a lot.

    "But it is only fair to say they have been a problem for us and now it is your problem," he says.

    "I think Britain is naive to believe that the gipsies (which is what they insist on calling themselves because it means 'free man' in their language) will change their ways overnight.

    "Of course, they will be aware of your generous benefits system. Since the early 19th century when they came to Europe from India, they have lived by asking others for money.

    "They are talented musicians, they are wonderful metalworkers, but mostly they like to live by begging. It is their tradition and some are very rich people.

    "Fathers, maybe only 45, have ten children. Those children will have dozens more children. There are rumours that beggars in London are getting £250 a day.

    "If you have 50 members of an extended family with outstretched hands, just count that up."

    Cristescu's words are harsh yet they ring true. Only last month there were police reports of organised gangs of Roma boys, some only ten and wearing primary school sweaters, begging in Walthamstow, East London.

    "They were accompanied by pregnant women and watched over by male minders who collected the takings.

    On the rutted streets in Tandarei this would come as no shock to Katerina, a grandmother, and one of the few members of the extended Demetrie family left in the town.

    I find her in a bungalow in the heart of the gipsy community.

    It is unlikely she will be here for long. Only recently she was living in Slough with her daughter and son-in-law and has returned for a funeral.

    "I want to go back," she says, as she shows me into her home. "We live here in miserable conditions. I promise you we do not go to England to get rich, but just to make a decent living."

    Katerina spent her time in Slough washing car windows at road junctions and asking for 50p in return.

    "We don't like it but what else do we do?" she asks, clutching a mobile phone in one hand and a cigarette butt in the other.

    "I did not have social help," she says. "I lived with my relatives and there were 15 in our house.

    "Of course, those that have been there longer or those with young children did get money from the council or the government. But not me."

    Katerina will return to Slough when she can afford the £100 fare with a company called Atlasib, which runs two coaches carrying 90 Romanians a week from Bucharest to London.

    Most of the travellers, says the company, buy a one-way ticket. There is even talk of putting on a third bus.

    As for Katerina, she asks me if I can help finance her return to England. When I decline, her mood changes swiftly.

    "Go away,' she snarls, "I never want to talk to you again."

    Up the street there is a warmer welcome from a man who gives his name as Mr Rada, standing outside an extraordinary house. It is just the kind of 'monstrosity' that the mayor would like to tear down.

    The neighbours say the fourstorey house, with green baize lining the steps to the front door and 12 statues of lions on the garden railings, was built with 'English money'.

    "I call it my English castle," says Mr Rada, who lives there with his wife and ten sons.

    "One of my relatives came back from England with a souvenir. It was a toy house. I copied my home almost exactly from that."

    In the surrounding fields, there is little sign of modern life. A goatherd tends his flock; peasant farmers drive horses with ploughs.

    In the streets teenagers chant the name Anglia, Romanian for England. They say that one 14-year-old has insisted she is called Anglia instead of her real name of Alena because so many of her relatives are already over there.

    Carmen Petcu, 30, plans to join Chivu, the father of her oneyearold baby Darius, next month in Manchester, where he has a job in a magazine warehouse.

    At a bar near Mr Sava's town hall, the pretty redhead explains: "My partner's parents retired and went to live in England six years ago.

    "They were given benefits and a council house. The next person to go was Chivu because he could not find work here."

    As she cuddles her son, she adds with an air of finality: "So many have disappeared from Tandarei, there is not much to stay for any more."
  17. I give up, I really do. A free flat and £720 a month.. What exactly are we working our ar*ses off for here?

    Ship the bloody lot of them back to where they came from, close the borders and shoot any who refuse to leave.

    Those kids that turned up in Slough - £200,000 so far. How much does it really cost to hire a couple of coaches and ship them down to the docks, throw them into the water and let them swim home?!
  18. I'm sure National Express will do concessions for such a journey. :thumbup:
  19. Don't shoot them, we haven't got the budget for the rounds.

    Just chuck 'em off the cliffs of Dover.
  20. I got a better way of doing it, borrow a few C-17s from the Brylcream boys, round up all the visitors and show them their new home (air transportable crate), lock them in load into the 'loaned' tranports and then label them up as aid and 1 way ticket (tick a box)

    Atlantic Ocean
    Middle of the Sahara
    ANyother fecking country but ours

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