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best way to tackle underage drinking /ASB

TOUGH NEW LINE TO COMBAT UNDER-AGE DRINKERS
5 readers have commented on this story. Click here to read their views.

08:00 - 11 June 2007



A Chain of shops battling to tackle under-age drinking in Bath is asking anyone who looks under 30 for proof of their age.Staff working for Smile, which has ten stores in the Bath area, used to challenge anyone looking under the age of 21 who wanted to buy alcohol.

But a brush with the licensing authorities in the city has persuaded it to take more drastic action - and now it wants other off-licences to adopt the same stance.

Three of the chain's Bath stores were issued with a ban on the sale of alcohol earlier this year after being caught serving under-age customers and being accused of failing to tackle anti-social behaviour.



But now bosses are hoping the new crackdown will help eliminate such problems.

Nick Lloyd, retail operations executive with the Yeovil-based firm, said: "For nearly a year now, we have been operating a Challenge 21 policy, where the results have been mixed and in some cases disappointing.

"Our store teams face increasing pressure to make the decision as to whether or not to serve alcohol to our customers, and sometimes suffer abuse and threatening behaviour.

"As a business we thought it was important to take a clear stand that would help relieve some of the pressure on our staff, and ensure that we do not sell alcohol to a 17-year-old posing as a 21-year-old."

The scheme has been running for two weeks and has been supported by a leaflet campaign, in-house training and point of sale material such as posters.

The company, which runs more than 70 shops, says results have been encouraging with customers now coming in to stores with ID ready to show.

It has sent a 20-year-old into some of its stores - and checks have been demanded each time.

Mr Lloyd said: "We have been working with the police and trading standards, and we would like to thank them for their support and guidance.

"Clearly, working together and communicating between ourselves gets results.

"We are calling on all retailers in Bath to join us in adopting this tough stance which will hopefully reduce and eliminate under-age drinking on the streets of Bath."

In the past year, staff in Smile stores across the city were caught selling alcohol to under-age teenagers on seven occasions.

Its Argyle Street store was also at the centre of multiple incidents of anti-social behaviour, theft and shoplifting.

As a result, councillors imposed a three-month ban on selling alcohol.

The Moorland Road branch was also given a two-month ban after selling beer to a 16-year-old.

The bans were imposed in April but put on hold while the firm considered an appeal.

The licence for a third store at St George's Place, in Upper Bristol Road, was revoked, but the shop has already shut down and is being redeveloped as housing.

Smile has pointed to a recent exercise by Asda which showed that nearly a quarter of people surveyed thought a group of 16-year-olds looked over 21 years of age

http://www.thisisbath.com/displayNo...tentPK=17530079&folderPk=89126&pNodeId=163047
 
Hell! do I have to carry my driving licence around now?

Seriously; kids getting pissed is a problem in and, more importantly, around Bath. Trouble is that if they can't get the grog, they can get the drugs all to easily.
 

2badge_mango

War Hero
No problem for me then (unless the shop assistant is squiffy/visually challenged/stoned/a product of the modern education system).
I was asked recently by a checkout assistant in Tesco if I was over 21.
I was able to reply " Yes, if you can multiply by three and a bit".

2BM (DOB 17.9.35)
 
2badge_mango said:
No problem for me then (unless the shop assistant is squiffy/visually challenged/stoned/a product of the modern education system).
I was asked recently by a checkout assistant in Tesco if I was over 21.
I was able to reply " Yes, if you can multiply by three and a bit".

2BM (DOB 17.9.35)

One has to be carefull with the flippant reply though, a couple of years ago in a nice little US town called Tucson I was asked the same question in a liquor store and made some flippant comment, and was required by law to show ID and give other details to be entered into the till before being allowed to complete my purchase, to the great amusment of my far younger colleagues who were with me..
 
Passed-over_Loggie said:
Hell! do I have to carry my driving licence around now?

Seriously; kids getting pissed is a problem in and, more importantly, around Bath. Trouble is that if they can't get the grog, they can get the drugs all to easily.

If you are driving or intend to drive then YES carry your D/L to fail to produce it on demand by a Constable is an offence. Just because the UK is silly enough to give you five days to produce it if you don't have it is IMHO stupid. If you copped a £50 on the spot fine each time you failed UK residents would rapidly get use to carrying ID. So lets start with drivers they are an easy target cos they are attached to big lump of valuable metal that can be seized. You carried oy still carry a Pussers ID card for long enough what is the problem?

Nutty

NUtty
 
Passed-over_Loggie said:
Hell! do I have to carry my driving licence around now?

Seriously; kids getting pissed is a problem in and, more importantly, around Bath. Trouble is that if they can't get the grog, they can get the drugs all to easily.


shows how observent I am, didn't realise you were in Bath as well, what part do you live in?
 
Nutty said:
Passed-over_Loggie said:
Hell! do I have to carry my driving licence around now?

Seriously; kids getting pissed is a problem in and, more importantly, around Bath. Trouble is that if they can't get the grog, they can get the drugs all to easily.

If you are driving or intend to drive then YES carry your D/L to fail to produce it on demand by a Constable is an offence. Just because the UK is silly enough to give you five days to produce it if you don't have it is IMHO stupid. If you copped a £50 on the spot fine each time you failed UK residents would rapidly get use to carrying ID. So lets start with drivers they are an easy target cos they are attached to big lump of valuable metal that can be seized. You carried oy still carry a Pussers ID card for long enough what is the problem?

Nutty

NUtty

There is a problem with producing your driving licence on demand in the UK.
If you show your licence to the police officer stopping you then a penalty notice can be issued on the spot; you are admitting your guilt at that point.
Taking your licence into a police station later gives you the opportunity to consider the situation, and if appropriate, contest any charge.
I think the situation between other EU countries and the UK is important.
Other countries have the rights of the citizen enshrined in their constitutions, and, their ID cards are simple affairs.
In the UK the ID card system seems highly technical and personally intrusive; without the back up of constitutional reform. Which I think is the basis of a lot of peoples objections.
 

Blood

MIA
Sussex 2, i have to disagree with your point about admitting Guilt. You are considered guilty even though you haven’t produced you DL upon demand to the Copper that stopped you. Five days certainly is an opportunity to consider the charge, but upon arrival at the Police Station you will still be issued with the Fine. Whether you hand you D/L to the PC on the spot or take into the station later, you will still have to go through the same process in order to contest the charge, you are just delaying it by five days and adding an extra visit to the police station.
I have no problems carrying an ID card, and producing it upon request? I have nothing to hide, and don’t feel my civil liberties are being infringed or find it personally intrusive to have to carry one and produce it upon request. Constitutional reform is interesting argument, but there are many ways to enshrine ID cards without a costly and long-winded review of such things, the implementation of ID cards during WW2 is a prime example. Is it such a diabolical scheme to carry ID cards, when most organisations including the Government have already a substantial amount of information about us? No one can deny that this country has serious problems, crime, ASBOs, illegal migration, fraud, etc, the ID card is a prudent course of action. I get so annoyed of watching the youngsters on the Police stop documentaries, giving the police the run around by providing false details. It certainly is not the solution to the problems, no way, but I have no-doubts it will help. My concern lies with the cost and security of such a card, bearing in mind that nearly every government venture seems to fall on it arse and cost far too much.
 

fishmiester

Banned
My way of stopping UA drinking and ASB.

1. Get rid of all Alcopops and other "fun drinks"
2. Go back to the days when everybody went out and drank the bitter/lager/stout/cider that was on tap.
3. Make spirits more expensive - remember the days when you were in a round and some one wanted Vodka and coke and you shat yourself because of the cost??
4. Stop supermarkets selling beer wines spirits. Only allow alcohol off sales through approve Off licences
5. Give any underage antisocial drinkers 1 warning then bang em up into some sort of hard labour institution.

Should go some way to start tackling the problem
 

slim

War Hero
fishmiester said:
My way of stopping UA drinking and ASB.

1. Get rid of all Alcopops and other "fun drinks"
2. Go back to the days when everybody went out and drank the bitter/lager/stout/cider that was on tap.
3. Make spirits more expensive - remember the days when you were in a round and some one wanted Vodka and coke and you shat yourself because of the cost??
4. Stop supermarkets selling beer wines spirits. Only allow alcohol off sales through approve Off licences
5. Give any underage antisocial drinkers 1 warning then bang em up into some sort of hard labour institution.

Should go some way to start tackling the problem

[email protected]@cks to these idea's, it's alright you suggesting this when you live in Spain, the land of cheapo hooch. What about the rest of us of legal drinking age? Why should we be forced to pay over the odds for booze because young chavs like to drink.
I suppose this is an idea for the UK only?
 
fishmiester said:
My way of stopping UA drinking and ASB.

1. Get rid of all Alcopops and other "fun drinks"
2. Go back to the days when everybody went out and drank the bitter/lager/stout/cider that was on tap.
3. Make spirits more expensive - remember the days when you were in a round and some one wanted Vodka and coke and you shat yourself because of the cost??
4. Stop supermarkets selling beer wines spirits. Only allow alcohol off sales through approve Off licences
5. Give any underage antisocial drinkers 1 warning then bang em up into some sort of hard labour institution.

Should go some way to start tackling the problem

Some how I don't think so, countries with far easier availability of alcohol at far lower prices do not have the same problem as us, so price and availability are perhaps not the root cause of the problem.

ON the other hand I happened on one of the cheep sky programmes last night where a camera tean follows plod round as they try and deal with the drunks. They the plods that is arrested a woman who was clearly incapable and instead of charging her and letting her have her day in the Mags court which may have made her think a bit about things, they plonkers took her home. So now she will reckon getting incapable is OK because plod will make sure she gets home. If we actually took these drunks to court and the local rag published their names like they did when I was that age we may see some better behaviour. They get plastered because there is no come back, not because the stuff is cheap. Zero tolerance policing is the answer.
 

Random

Lantern Swinger
Passed-over_Loggie said:
Hell! do I have to carry my driving licence around now?

Seriously; kids getting pissed is a problem in and, more importantly, around Bath. Trouble is that if they can't get the grog, they can get the drugs all to easily.

Can agree with that, having grown up in and around Bath, it has never been difficult for kids to get hold of alcohol or drugs. However a lot (but not all) of what they are laying their hands on, was bought by their parents/siblings/older mates.
 
Blood said:
Sussex 2, i have to disagree with your point about admitting Guilt. You are considered guilty even though you haven’t produced you DL upon demand to the Copper that stopped you. Five days certainly is an opportunity to consider the charge, but upon arrival at the Police Station you will still be issued with the Fine. Whether you hand you D/L to the PC on the spot or take into the station later, you will still have to go through the same process in order to contest the charge, you are just delaying it by five days and adding an extra visit to the police station.
I have no problems carrying an ID card, and producing it upon request? I have nothing to hide, and don’t feel my civil liberties are being infringed or find it personally intrusive to have to carry one and produce it upon request. Constitutional reform is interesting argument, but there are many ways to enshrine ID cards without a costly and long-winded review of such things, the implementation of ID cards during WW2 is a prime example. Is it such a diabolical scheme to carry ID cards, when most organisations including the Government have already a substantial amount of information about us? No one can deny that this country has serious problems, crime, ASBOs, illegal migration, fraud, etc, the ID card is a prudent course of action. I get so annoyed of watching the youngsters on the Police stop documentaries, giving the police the run around by providing false details. It certainly is not the solution to the problems, no way, but I have no-doubts it will help. My concern lies with the cost and security of such a card, bearing in mind that nearly every government venture seems to fall on it arse and cost far too much.

I think the the issue of security may well be the most prominent concern to people.
EU identity cards are nowhere near as complex, nor do they contain such details as whether or not you carry another passport; which is none of the UK goverments business.
My thoughts, that's all, are that the complexity of this card system will be watered down, principally by the EU. We shall end up with an ID card but a far more simple version.
As you say any government does not have a good track record with such things.
 
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