Bebefit system refit Your suggestions pleas

slim

War Hero
We seem to have hijacked the Gun thread and it is becoming more of a Chac/Benefit/Social debate.
I think my extreme right wing views on the benefit system are well known. So what reforms would members suggest may best be applied to the system to make it fit for purpose.
I have put this thread in Current affairs so please only serious suggestions which could make a difference.
A more light hearted thread will be put on Diamond Lills for all of us who like to take the p!ss
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Moving slightly away from benefit reform, can I suggest a possible solution to some points raised here and elsewhere?

As we know there is an evident problem with social disorder; some offenders are 'let off' in the eyes of some, and oters are imprisoned. As we also know our prison are almost full to capacity, and many prisoners are released unreformed or rehabilitated, and often go on to commit more serious offences.

Could a social reform programme be implemented whereby, rather than an offender authomatically being 'banged up' he is forcibly employed (under strict supervision) working within the community he has harmed?

A more intense version of Number 9 Punishment perhaps? The benefits of this are obvious. More space is created in prisons; offenders are seen in public by the victims of their crimes, and are shamed by the circumstances of them doing menial but worthwhile tasks; and slowly but surely the community itself will see an improvement in the appearance in their locale and will also see that offenders are able to reform, given the opportunity. Obviously offenders that do not comply with the sensible but strictly monitored regime of this will be penalised accordingly.

I know it might appear a bit uptopian but it's a start, isn't it?
 

slim

War Hero
sgtpepperband said:
Moving slightly away from benefit reform, can I suggest a possible solution to some points raised here and elsewhere?

As we know there is an evident problem with social disorder; some offenders are 'let off' in the eyes of some, and oters are imprisoned. As we also know our prison are almost full to capacity, and many prisoners are released unreformed or rehabilitated, and often go on to commit more serious offences.

Could a social reform programme be implemented whereby, rather than an offender authomatically being 'banged up' he is forcibly employed (under strict supervision) working within the community he has harmed?

A more intense version of Number 9 Punishment perhaps? The benefits of this are obvious. More space is created in prisons; offenders are seen in public by the victims of their crimes, and are shamed by the circumstances of them doing menial but worthwhile tasks; and slowly but surely the community itself will see an improvement in the appearance in their locale and will also see that offenders are able to reform, given the opportunity. Obviously offenders that do not comply with the sensible but strictly monitored regime of this will be penalised accordingly.

I know it might appear a bit uptopian but it's a start, isn't it?

I like the idea sarge. How about starting a new thread on crime & punishment in the same vein. i.e. One on Current affairs where we can all be serious and the other on Diamond Lills for all us p!ss takers?
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
If you spread the thread it will only confuse people; ones who have a valid point will post in Lills, and vicky verky! And since when has Jack been serious for that long?! 8O
 

slim

War Hero
sgtpepperband said:
If you spread the thread it will only confuse people; ones who have a valid point will post in Lills, and vicky verky! And since when has Jack been serious for that long?! 8O

Just thought we could have a seperate area for serious & non serious.
Seriously I do like your idea of punishment RN style for offenders rather than probation or prison. However how long would it be before the toerags went to the European court to complain that their civil liberties were being abused?
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
The right to live in a peaceful and safe environment compared to a (self-perceived) infringement of their civil liberties? I know which side a court would sit...
 

slim

War Hero
sgtpepperband said:
The right to live in a peaceful and safe environment compared to a (self-perceived) infringement of their civil liberties? I know which side a court would sit...

Unfortunately the judicial system both here & in Europe seem to lean towards the perpetrator of the crime & not the victim
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
slim said:
So what reforms would members suggest may best be applied to the system to make it fit for purpose.
I have put this thread in Current affairs so please only serious suggestions which could make a difference.

Simplify and harmonise the benefits and taxation systems; give everyone a personal allowance, say for arguments sake, 12000 GBP. If you earn less than this amount, then the benefits system will pay you the difference, and if you earn more than this amount, then you will be taxed on the difference at a flat rate, e.g. 25% (actual levels selected to ensure it is cost neutral at worst, and does not disadvantage current recipients). For married couples (and civil partnerships) there should be a mechanism where partners can transfer a proportion of their personal allowance across when their partner is not working. Children's allowances? I don't know, perhaps continue with Child Allowance as per today and not give any additional incentives.

This should greatly simplify the payments system, and reduce the admin burden that ther is today. People will once again become responsible for paying their own bills from thier income and will have to budget accordingly - (although perhaps we need to introduce the concept of fiscal responsiblility and budgeting into the education system and give people an education in living rather than worthless bit of paper!).
 

slim

War Hero
FlagWagger said:
slim said:
So what reforms would members suggest may best be applied to the system to make it fit for purpose.
I have put this thread in Current affairs so please only serious suggestions which could make a difference.

Simplify and harmonise the benefits and taxation systems; give everyone a personal allowance, say for arguments sake, 12000 GBP. If you earn less than this amount, then the benefits system will pay you the difference, and if you earn more than this amount, then you will be taxed on the difference at a flat rate, e.g. 25% (actual levels selected to ensure it is cost neutral at worst, and does not disadvantage current recipients). For married couples (and civil partnerships) there should be a mechanism where partners can transfer a proportion of their personal allowance across when their partner is not working. Children's allowances? I don't know, perhaps continue with Child Allowance as per today and not give any additional incentives.

This should greatly simplify the payments system, and reduce the admin burden that ther is today. People will once again become responsible for paying their own bills from thier income and will have to budget accordingly - (although perhaps we need to introduce the concept of fiscal responsiblility and budgeting into the education system and give people an education in living rather than worthless bit of paper!).

Seems feasible, however wouldn't this system still give those that can work but wont work even more money?
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
slim said:
FlagWagger said:
Simplify and harmonise the benefits and taxation systems; <snip>

Seems feasible, however wouldn't this system still give those that can work but wont work even more money?

Possibly but only to a certain point, say subsistence level rather than comfortable existence level; but the big difference, is that any new system should not overly penalise people who want to work - if they earn more money then they should, above a certain level, see the fruits of their labours; today's benefits system unfortunately often penalises people for working and actually discourages people from working.
 

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