BBC2 - Britain's Biggest Warship - Sunday, April 15th 2018 - 8 pm

Purple_twiglet

War Hero
Moderator
#21
Maybe. I think 2/3 man cabins for all, but the most senior would be a more sustainable use of space and build the ship's ethos just as well. Do junior officers have less need to talk to eachother?
Have you ever served at sea (genuine question?)

Junior Officerss (e.g. under training) generally do share on most smaller ships, but there comes a point when their cabin is used for a variety of work and divisional duties that cannot be done elsewhere. Its not a cabin, its an office too.

Its also a point that RHIP...
 
#22
The Telegraph's Review of the programme:

"Ed Power
15 April 2018 • 9:00pm

Britain's Biggest Warship review – A Smidgen More Inquisitiveness Might Not Have Gone Amiss

The most underwhelming thing about Britain’s Biggest Warship (BBC Two) was the gargantuan tub itself. HMS Queen Elizabeth might be taller than Nelson’s Column, with sufficient engine capacity to power all of Swindon (or Aberdeen, if you’d rather a Scottish comparison). But, heavens, the mammoth aircraft carrier – three times larger than predecessors HMS Ark Royal and Illustrious – cut a joyless figure as it underwent final pre-launch preparations at Rosyth dockyard on the Firth of Forth.

Looming in the murk Royal Navy's £3.1 billion new flagship was a ruthless triumph of function over form – a gunmetal lump with a runway that culminated in what resembled an outsized speed bump, as if the worst it might encounter patrolling the world’s hotspots was the occasional boy racer.

Happily, part one of Chris Terrill’s three-hour docudrama chronicling the birth pangs, such as they were, of the navy’s most ambitious ever engineering feat was considerably more charming than the dour dreadnought. Helping hugely was the fact that ship’s captain Jerry Kyd, our eyes and ears for the bulk of the episode, was a likeable sort who took a harpoon to seadog archetypes.

Quietly spoken with unflappable manner, Kyd was more Captain Mild than Captain Bligh. He said things like “the world at the moment is pretty frisky” and had the air of a details-oriented middle manager. It was hard to imagine him strapped to the tiller yelling “torpedoes away” (or whatever it is you shout when taking an aircraft carrier taller than Nelson’s Column into battle).

Kyd nonetheless had his work cut out getting the Queen Elizabeth literally ship shape in time for its mid -2017 launch date. One quarter of those setting off on her maiden voyage had never previously been to sea (bit of a setback if you’re a sailor presumably). Plus, health and safety regulations were understandably rigorous. A fire breaking out on deck needed, for instance, to be attended to within 30 seconds and extinguished within 60.

Complicating the puzzle, the Queen Elizabeth’s groundbreaking design involved the hulking twin propellors being driven by power diverted from the engines via electric cable. This, as Kyd might say, was a “frisky” proposition, given that water and electricity tend not to get on terribly well – especially with humans added to the equation.

And so it proved as, during a simulation of life at sea, the Queen Elizabeth sprung a leak in the engine room – sending what looked like gallons of saltwater gushing eagerly down onto all those electrics.

The crisis wasn’t overplayed by Terrill, who had in 2007 been awarded an honorary green beret when embedded with Royal Marine Commandos training for Afghanistan (an experience chronicled in Commando: On The Front Line) . But you could sense the adrenaline as an alarm blared suddenly, prompting a mad, shaky-cam dash into the bowels of the boat as the crew rushed to contain the emergency (which they did, without undue fuss).

Britain’s Biggest Warship was an old-school fly-on-the-wall documentary, with Terrill there to quietly bear witness rather than act as pitbull interrogator. No doubt this helped foster a bond between film-maker and his subjects.

However, it also left some questions dangling in the wind. There was, in particular, a lack of follow-through as it was explained that the new flagship used a “lean manning” model, meaning it was crewed by less than 700 rather than the 3,000 required to run an American carrier of equivalent size.

“Lean manning is not just about efficiency of course,” elaborated the narrator, “but about saving money as defence budgets continue to bite”. For penny-pinching to be a key design principle of the Royal Navy’s posterchild came as an eye-opener – as did the revelation that the missile system utilised delivery logistics similar to that employed by Amazon at its warehouses.

That Britain’s naval prestige was being entrusted to a vessel dependent to technology comparable to that used to deliver Mad Men boxed sets was, on the face of it, disconcerting. Here and elsewhere, a smidgen more inquisitiveness might not have gone amiss."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2018...rship-review-a-smidgen-inquisitiveness-might/
Seems to me that journalist has little idea about warships, propulsion systems or, indeed, the RN in general, particularly the comment about 25% of the ships company never having been to sea before.

But maybe that's just the way I've interpreted the article.
 

huwshpis

Lantern Swinger
#23
Maybe. I think 2/3 man cabins for all, but the most senior would be a more sustainable use of space and build the ship's ethos just as well. Do junior officers have less need to talk to eachother?
Have you ever served at sea (genuine question?)

Junior Officerss (e.g. under training) generally do share on most smaller ships, but there comes a point when their cabin is used for a variety of work and divisional duties that cannot be done elsewhere. Its not a cabin, its an office too.

Its also a point that RHIP...
I once shared the whole of the fish-hold on a trawler converted for minesweeping with another subby!
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
#24
But maybe that's just the way I've interpreted the article.
If anything you flattered the article. What a pile of feed for the Integrated Waste Management System.
Much of it cliché, the rest ill-informed.

The little of the episode that I did see ( stuck in traffic ) was good oh.
 
#25
I agree. However the difference in accommodation space provided to junior officers compared to other ranks is less justifiable and must to some extent contribute to recruitment problems.
Senior ratings have always had better accomodation than Junior Ratings. Officers have always had better accomodation than senior rates.
This has been the case since Nelsons time and rightly so.
Another incentive to move up the ladder and improve your lot.
 

jrwlynch

Lantern Swinger
#27
Senior ratings have always had better accomodation than Junior Ratings. Officers have always had better accomodation than senior rates.
Nobody got that memo when I've been aboard... at least on the 45s there's the Embarked Forces bunkspace, on 23s it was either the sonobuoy store, the Harpoon machinery space or the Ops Room annex, and on Manchester the JO's grot was a four-man cabin that was a happy home to nine and my "bunk" there was a mattress on top of a locker (better hope we don't roll much!)

Another incentive to move up the ladder and improve your lot.
To be fair, an RNR acting subbie - or a civilian scientist who's nominally "officer equivalent" - isn't exactly many rungs up the ladder. In fact, if you lift the ladder and look at the tile on the deck, we're the stains under the tile...

Still, shouldn't have joined if you can't take a joke...
 
#28
The only Officers who got their own cabins in my last ship were the Heads of Department and CO. My two Lt Cdr PWOs shared a cabin.

The only Officers who will have their own cabins on QE (when fully manned with embarked aircrew) are the Lt Cdrs and above.


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#29
As a Junior rate on HMS Ark Royal (RO9) I had my own cabin.
Only problem was getting the other 78 people who also thought it was their cabin out of it :(
 
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redmonkey

Lantern Swinger
Book Reviewer
#31
Seems to me that journalist has little idea about warships, propulsion systems or, indeed, the RN in general, particularly the comment about 25% of the ships company never having been to sea before.

But maybe that's just the way I've interpreted the article.
That is how I read it. The journo doesn't know what he is talking about.
 
#32
Have you ever served at sea (genuine question?)

Junior Officerss (e.g. under training) generally do share on most smaller ships, but there comes a point when their cabin is used for a variety of work and divisional duties that cannot be done elsewhere. Its not a cabin, its an office too.

Its also a point that RHIP...
No sorry, not been to sea with the RN. Did a trip on a Russian cargo ship as a passenger en route Leningrad(as was) once. Never again! And been on the Trafalgar many times. I suppose a tiered bunk is some improvement on a hammock.
I was just judging the look of horror on the faces of the younger generation in the house when he pulled open the drawer under the bunk and said ' plenty of storage'. And looking at the 4 boxes of kit that my daughter brought home from URNU which we struggled to store with considerably more space!! Just hard to imagine the younger generation coping. Anyone know how the Americans accommodate their people on board?
 
#33
Have you ever served at sea (genuine question?)

Junior Officerss (e.g. under training) generally do share on most smaller ships, but there comes a point when their cabin is used for a variety of work and divisional duties that cannot be done elsewhere. Its not a cabin, its an office too.

Its also a point that RHIP...
No sorry, not been to sea with the RN. Did a trip on a Russian cargo ship as a passenger en route Leningrad(as was) once. Never again! And been on the Trafalgar many times. I suppose a tiered bunk is some improvement on a hammock.
I was just judging the look of horror on the faces of the younger generation in the house when he pulled open the drawer under the bunk and said ' plenty of storage'. And looking at the 4 boxes of kit that my daughter brought home from URNU which we struggled to store with considerably more space!! Just hard to imagine the younger generation coping. Anyone know how the Americans accommodate their people on board?
Far, far worse.


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Purple_twiglet

War Hero
Moderator
#34
No sorry, not been to sea with the RN. Did a trip on a Russian cargo ship as a passenger en route Leningrad(as was) once. Never again! And been on the Trafalgar many times. I suppose a tiered bunk is some improvement on a hammock.
I was just judging the look of horror on the faces of the younger generation in the house when he pulled open the drawer under the bunk and said ' plenty of storage'. And looking at the 4 boxes of kit that my daughter brought home from URNU which we struggled to store with considerably more space!! Just hard to imagine the younger generation coping. Anyone know how the Americans accommodate their people on board?
I would go and look at the quality of accommodation on an American ship, compare it to a UK prison and consider where I'd rather spend 6 months away from home. Prison at least has some daylight...
 

huwshpis

Lantern Swinger
#35
No sorry, not been to sea with the RN. Did a trip on a Russian cargo ship as a passenger en route Leningrad(as was) once. Never again! And been on the Trafalgar many times. I suppose a tiered bunk is some improvement on a hammock.
I was just judging the look of horror on the faces of the younger generation in the house when he pulled open the drawer under the bunk and said ' plenty of storage'. And looking at the 4 boxes of kit that my daughter brought home from URNU which we struggled to store with considerably more space!! Just hard to imagine the younger generation coping. Anyone know how the Americans accommodate their people on board?
I would go and look at the quality of accommodation on an American ship, compare it to a UK prison and consider where I'd rather spend 6 months away from home. Prison at least has some daylight...
Wasn’t it Dr Johnson who said that serving at sea was like being in prison with the added likelihood of being drowned? My shared fish-hold on HMS St David was very comfy as I only had to share with one other!


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SaladDodger

Lantern Swinger
#37
Chris Terrill has the knack of making good progs, many years ago he did it with HMS Brilliant and then the 55 year old Commando.
I'd much rather our licence fee money goes to good writers / presenters like him, Bruce Parry and Ray Mears than irritating knobbers like Graham Norton (£6m p/y ?)
 

Purple_twiglet

War Hero
Moderator
#38
Afraid not but I have always found the WO & SNR rates mess comfortable (.
NELSON W/R is the sort of place where if you put prisoners, they'd sue for human rights violations. A few years ago I stayed there for 2 weeks, then for a course overflow accom issue got a week in VANGUARD block. I went from decrepit room, leaking bathrooms and shoddy 1950s furniture to a modern en suite room in the JRs block.

NELSON is not a nice place to stay!
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
#39
NELSON W/R is the sort of place where if you put prisoners, they'd sue for human rights violations. A few years ago I stayed there for 2 weeks, then for a course overflow accom issue got a week in VANGUARD block. I went from decrepit room, leaking bathrooms and shoddy 1950s furniture to a modern en suite room in the JRs block.

NELSON is not a nice place to stay!
The public rooms are the trappings of Empire and I like them very much but towel and flip flops and a shuffle down the corridor to the heads and bathrooms is so Billy Budd.
 

Spare_Rib

Lantern Swinger
#40
NELSON W/R is the sort of place where if you put prisoners, they'd sue for human rights violations. A few years ago I stayed there for 2 weeks, then for a course overflow accom issue got a week in VANGUARD block. I went from decrepit room, leaking bathrooms and shoddy 1950s furniture to a modern en suite room in the JRs block.

NELSON is not a nice place to stay!
The East Annex in particular is the stuff of horror movies. I once was given a cabin with a dodgy window that kept randomly opening. I came back one day and a pigeon had moved in. Bad times.
 

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