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BBC navy program

slim

War Hero
Anyone else received one of these?










Graham Brown
Managing Director
Forces Recruitment Services (FRS) Ltd
Recruitment House, 15 Clover End , Witchford , CB6 2XD

Tel 01353 645004Fax 01353 667553
Email: [email protected]
Web:www.forcesrecruitment.co.uk









Dear Bill Richards

I got an email from a BBC Producer looking to do a couple of interviews with Ex Royal Navy Service personnel. Can you please email Paul Grant direct if you would like to take part? There is no need to come back to me.
Regards
Graham


Dear Graham
Here is the e-mail as promised. As I said we are making a programme for BBC radio current affairs looking at the current state of the navy. In particular, we are looking for evidence of incidents which highlight current concerns over the size of the fleet and equipment and maintance levels. For example, the defence select committee was apparently told that patrols in the Caribbean are not allowed to go at full speed to save fuel. We would be interested in other examples from former navy personnel where they feel they have been unable to do their job properly or maybe feel they have been unnecessarily endangered because of cutbacks.
Thank you for your help. I can be contacted on the numbers below
Paul Grant Producer
É 0161 244 3954 07764 575130 8 [email protected] ? BBC TV, Scanner Hall, New Broadcasting House, Oxford Road, Manchester, M60 1SJ.









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DingDong

Lantern Swinger
What an absolute load of bollocks.

Ships not able to go full speed? They do when the need to, and are as economical as possible when they don't need to go fast.
 

DingDong

Lantern Swinger
In fact i'm going to make sure that Fleet Media are aware of this so that they don't get blind sided by this.

BBC To**ers.

Guys stick up for the service.
 

Shakey

War Hero
DingDong said:
Guys stick up for the service.

And perhaps someone will do that by telling the truth about how this government is wrecking the Navy and the Forces in general.

Take the Type 45 for example. We'll be lucky to get six, and they have no ASuW weapons.
 

Blood

MIA
Any truth would be turned into spin and used against the government and more importantly us (the RN, not the USA). I agree we need a forum to represent our views, a federation for example, not a union. But the bias BBC (the bagdad broadcasting corp) is not this forum. And after the recent bad press about the RN, the last thing the RN needs is more programs making us out to be bloody useless. DingDong, Im with you. Why doesnt the BBC do a programme about what the RN is doing today, where and how. How about a bit of support from this state funded media body.
 
DingDong said:
In fact i'm going to make sure that Fleet Media are aware of this so that they don't get blind sided by this.

BBC To**ers.

Guys stick up for the service.

Perhaps helping the MOD hide the true situation is perhaps not the best thing for the service
 

Blood

MIA
I agree helping the MOD to hide anything is bad but this certainly isnt the right way to tell the world of whats going on.
The Service could never be helped by the way the BBC would spin this story.
 

sparkerbuntingnowcis

Lantern Swinger
I think most people already know that we can't afford the fuel nowadays, or ammunition for practices. That's because the treasury run us and not the MOD.
 
D

Deleted 493

Guest
higthepig said:
Levers would be a cracking choice, but i think he is still serving, pity really.

Heh. It would be a Royal pleasure. Frankly, for much of the reasons Blood has posted, however, I think loading the guns of those only interested enough to push out thirty minutes of tailored nonsense is a waste of my time, resources and serves no-one but themselves. I am not in allegience with organisations who have done little to arrest the slide that has been going on for years. They show precious little attention-span when we are in the shit, and compound our problems by trivialisation and inaccuracy when they do show up. I give you every programme they have made about us since the pioneering 'Sailor', back in the day.

And for you bloodthirsty wankers ready to capitalise on 'ex-servicemen', (remember, their viability is inversely and exponentially proportional to their 'ex-ness') good luck. All you will do is stir the turds at the bottom of the pan.

Levers
 

SILVER_FOX

War Hero
If we were in the habit of zipping about all over the place on patrols then it is reasonable to assume that we might miss an awful lot of what we're supposed to be looking out for in the first place.

Moving about at a slower pace has many advantages and not just in terms of fuel savings.

SF
 

sparkerbuntingnowcis

Lantern Swinger
If we were in the habit of zipping about all over the place on patrols then it is reasonable to assume that we might miss an awful lot of what we're supposed to be looking out for in the first place.

Moving about at a slower pace has many advantages and not just in terms of fuel savings.

SF


I take it your not a 42 rating then?

Maxi Chat or nothing!
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
I'm not so sure the BBC would even get that much of a story - there is a large degree of "so what", the general public won't be interested in a lot of the issues.

We're experiencing nothing more than any other arm of the Government is as well, the only difference is that we're expected to do the best with the kit we have and potentially go to war or operate in hostile theatres. Thinking broadly is that so different to asking hospitals to treat people when they may not have the very best equipment or the best drugs, or asking the police to operate without enough manpower and resources.

We have far from the right levels of equipment or people but that is absolutely no difference to how we have operated since well before WW2. Even back then 'we' argued we didn't have enough to do the job.

Its all quality not quantity now and achieveing what you can with the assets you have available. The Commanders in Helmand know right now they can do what they need to with what they have, they also know they could achieve more if that had more equipment and people, but thats not going to happen its just reality. I don't like it any more than anyone else and I love a mess deck moan as much as the next man but thats life.

As for T45 not having ASuW weapons, great example of the balance we need to take. Do we envisage an area AAW platform operating alone in an a submarine threat environment? Most likely not, we have T23 and Merlin for that, Merlin and other ASW capable platforms are in most probability going to be onboard the CVF that T45 will be protecting, so if we can compromise and get T45 without a specific ASuW fit then it seems a reasonable compromise.

I, personally, think all this dripping over what we haven't got is pointless - being right is irrelevant, it won't get the treasury to suddenly open up the piggy bank and give 1SL an open cheque. We're better off getting on with what we have and making that work.
 
D

Deleted 493

Guest
wave_dodger said:
I'm not so sure the BBC would even get that much of a story - there is a large degree of "so what", the general public won't be interested in a lot of the issues.

We're experiencing nothing more than any other arm of the Government is as well, the only difference is that we're expected to do the best with the kit we have and potentially go to war or operate in hostile theatres. Thinking broadly is that so different to asking hospitals to treat people when they may not have the very best equipment or the best drugs, or asking the police to operate without enough manpower and resources.

We have far from the right levels of equipment or people but that is absolutely no difference to how we have operated since well before WW2. Even back then 'we' argued we didn't have enough to do the job.

Its all quality not quantity now and achieveing what you can with the assets you have available. The Commanders in Helmand know right now they can do what they need to with what they have, they also know they could achieve more if that had more equipment and people, but thats not going to happen its just reality. I don't like it any more than anyone else and I love a mess deck moan as much as the next man but thats life.

As for T45 not having ASuW weapons, great example of the balance we need to take. Do we envisage an area AAW platform operating alone in an a submarine threat environment? Most likely not, we have T23 and Merlin for that, Merlin and other ASW capable platforms are in most probability going to be onboard the CVF that T45 will be protecting, so if we can compromise and get T45 without a specific ASuW fit then it seems a reasonable compromise.

I, personally, think all this dripping over what we haven't got is pointless - being right is irrelevant, it won't get the treasury to suddenly open up the piggy bank and give 1SL an open cheque. We're better off getting on with what we have and making that work.

What a load of undiliuted, misinformed crap. Geographically and employment-wise, where exactly are you at the moment, wave-dodger?

I love this 'we'll just have to crack on, and make it work with what we have' bullshit. No problem during times of war, and sixty or so years ago, this nation made it's name just doing that. We were cut off, empoverished and relied on our resolve and grit to do so. But now? We are told with glee that we are a monsterously powerful economic entity, yet to protect that we run our armed forces like a pikey would run his unloved transit. And that's not just in one area - it's all over. I'd like you to come and give your pep talk to my employees, currently embattled in OPDEF hell and feeling the heat from those above who subscribe to your 'kings new clothes' horse shit.

I'll tell you this. Coming soon is a catastrophe which will destroy many matelots lives, and as much as they try their best to blame it on the maintainers and operators, the baseline will fall at the feet of those more aligned with 'muckling by' and 'making do with what we have' who coincidentally are more likely to spend billions on refurbishing the MoD Whitehall building instead of making or ships safe, efficient and reliable. Just like they used to be. Remember?

Levers
 

Shakey

War Hero
wave_dodger said:
As for T45 not having ASuW weapons, great example of the balance we need to take. Do we envisage an area AAW platform operating alone in an a submarine threat environment? Most likely not, we have T23 and Merlin for that, Merlin and other ASW capable platforms are in most probability going to be onboard the CVF that T45 will be protecting, so if we can compromise and get T45 without a specific ASuW fit then it seems a reasonable compromise.

I have to disagee. How often do our ships operate in the sort of flotilla you describe?

The government deploys our limited resources all over the western hemisphere in single units.

You mention the T23, but they're already selling those off.

To build this allegedly fantastic AAW platform with no ASuW and limited ASW ability brings to mind the phrase about spoiling ships for a ha'porth of tar.
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
What a load of undiliuted as opposed to?
misinformed crap Which piece is incorrect or factually incorrect?
Geographically Portsmouth at the moment, Lashkar Gah and Khandahar last week
employment-wise Fully employed by the RN

I love this 'we'll just have to crack on, and make it work with what we have' bullshit. As opposed to pointless whining? or have the Treasury suddenly decided to listen to your prayers and have found a few billion that they lost down the settee?

So in the economical utopia that must be your Britain, have you closed all the hospitals and schools to pay for a larger RN, cancelled a CVF or two or won the lottery and donated it all to 1SL? Where does all this money come from?

So what do you do at work, sit an bemoan the state of the RN, give 1SL and the Navy Board a hard time? There are realities, there just isn't any more money. Its simple, the Treasury have even imposed a further wedge against the Navy in the order of £44M - hence Transformation and LEAN.

The Emporers new clothes - where does that come in? Not sure I see what you were trying to say.

The MB refurb is obviously an issue that rankles - but have a think on this. There is a reason the RN didn't move wholesale down from Whitehall to Portsmouth in the early 90s. Relocating to Victory Building would have meant the RN wouldn't have had a voice or representation in MoD and more importantly around the Whitehall mandarins, particulalry the Treasury. Without that we stood to lose our say, and a lot more defence money would have gone elsewhere. You may not like it but that is the way it is. I probably agree about the overall cost of the refurb but thats a huge debate.

We probably agree a lot more than you think - but I just cannot see the point of constantly moaning. No-one is under the impression that is will magically get better, until such a time as the treasury choose to significantly invest in the UK Armed Forces it will get no better. I just don't see the level of expenditure required ever being committed, not unless we cancelled the deterrant and that really is another topic.

Shakey - I agree to a point, but we send ships to the Gulf or ATP(N)/ATP(S) for example for specific missions, backed up (hopefully) by sufficient intelligence and threat analysis to esnure they are capable of meeting any perceived threat. As far as I was aware T45 is a specific AAW platform - it may goof around as a singleton doing the same as a T42 but if there was a ASW threat, even now I'm sure we'd change the operating parameters of ship deployments. Thats a one for the bods down in Fleet Ops to answer (or are you in there?)
 
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