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BBC: "Cameron Hint That HMS Ocean Will Be Spared In Cuts?"

dublinclontarf

Badgeman
Cast Iron call me Dave, f**kin c**t doesn't give a kiddies fiddlers.
No aircraft for an aircraft carrier, build two and then scap one when done.
Scap all the harriers and Lusty or Ocean.
I'd like to sh*t on his grave.

f**kin c**t


mod edit,

Try, try hard to keep within the spirit of the rules of the Current Affairs forum.
 

Wilf

Midshipman
Re: BBC: "Cameron Hint That HMS Ocean Will Be Spared In Cuts

"Would it really make sense to immediately decommission a ship which - as Mr Cameron confirmed yesterday - is about to undergo a costly refit?"

Er- yes! Then it doesn't have to undergo said costly refit.
 

finknottle

Banned
dublinclontarf said:
Cast Iron call me Dave, f**kin c**t doesn't give a kiddies fiddlers.
No aircraft for an aircraft carrier, build two and then scap one when done.
Scap all the harriers and Lusty or Ocean.
I'd like to sh*t on his grave.

f**kin c**t

8O 8O You can't say that about 'we are all in it together Dave' and his cabinet of millionaires.
 

pg55555

Lantern Swinger
Re: BBC: "Cameron Hint That HMS Ocean Will Be Spared In Cuts

Here :-

http://download.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/sdsr/factsheet6-royal-navy.pdf

Is the Cabinet Office "Fact Sheet 6: Future Force 2020 –Royal Navy"

Could someone show me where the RFA is ?

---------------

The text reads ;

Re-structuring and re-equipping to be relevant for the 21st Century

By 2020, the Royal Navy will be structured to provide:

•maritime defence of the UK and our Overseas Territories, including the South Atlantic;

•nuclear Continuous at Sea Deterrence; and

•a credible and capable presence within priority regions of the world that contributes to conventional deterrence, coercion and containment. The Royal Marines will provide:

•a very high readiness response force and a contribution to enduring land operations.

The Trident Force

Currently, there are four Vanguard-class submarines, one of which is always on patrol. Each submarine is equipped with up to 48 nuclear warheads in 12 operational launch tubes. The Vanguard-class will be replaced by new submarines from 2028. Further details are set out in the separate Trident Fact Sheet.

Carrier Strike

Our carrier strike capability will be based around a single operational carrier, with a second planned to be kept at extended readiness. This leaves open options to rotate them, to ensure a continuous UK carrier strike capability; or to regenerate more quickly a two carrier strike capability. Alternatively, we might sell one of the carriers, relying on cooperation with a close ally to provide continuous carrier strike capability. Further details are set out in the carrier strike Fact Sheet.


Frigate and Destroyer Force

The Royal Navy will be equipped with 19 frigates and destroyers to protect a Naval Task Group and meet our standing commitments at home and overseas. These will include six new Type 45 destroyers and new Type 26 frigates. This force, though smaller than at present, will provide military flexibility and choice across a variety of operations from full-scale warfare to maritime security (in particular protecting trade and energy supplies).

Hunter Killer Submarines

Seven new Astute class submarines will contribute to the protection of our nuclear deterrent and naval task groups. These nuclear powered submarines have a global reach and provide autonomous strategic intelligence and Tomahawk land attack strike capability.

Royal Marines –3 Commando Brigade

The Royal Marines’ 3 Commando Brigade will provide one element of our very high readiness response force.

The Royal Marines will be able to land and sustain a Commando Group of up to 1800 personnel by helicopter and landing craft, with protective vehicles, logistics and command and control support from a specialist landing and command ship.

Maritime Helicopters

Merlin and Wildcat maritime helicopters will provide the destroyer and frigate force with essential search and attack capabilities.
These helicopters will support counter-piracy, counter-narcotics and humanitarian missions.

Mine Countermeasures

14 Mine Countermeasures Vessels (MCMVs) will help to provide free and secure access for trade and military vessels through vulnerable sea lanes and provide a significant tier of security and protection of our nuclear deterrent.
Future MCMVs will use a common hull and modular design to support modern counter mine systems, hydrography and patrol requirements.

Logistic Support

We will have a fleet of resupply and refuelling vessels scaled to meet the Royal Navy’s requirements, and 6 roll-on, roll-off ferries.

In order to meet the Future Force 2020 structure, the Royal Navy will:

•reduce by around 5,000 to a total of c30,000 by 2015;

•decommission HMS Ark Royal immediately;

•decommission either the helicopter landing ship HMS Ocean or HMS Illustrious following a short study of which would provide the most effective helicopter platform capability, and place one landing and command ship at extended readiness;

•decommission 4 frigates and a Bay-class amphibious support ship;

•rationalise the Royal Navy estate.
 
Well, Lusty is mid-refit, and keeping her lets us maintain the smallest of fixed wing capability. Other people's jets obviously, but enough to keep people's hands in!
 
Re: BBC: "Cameron Hint That HMS Ocean Will Be Spared In Cuts

This force, though smaller than at present, will provide military flexibility and choice across a variety of operations

Could someone who knows kindly explain the logic of that please? Not having the brains of a politician or 1SL, I'm failing to understand how a 19 DD/FF Flotilla can provide that aspiration.
 

wurz

Lantern Swinger
alfred_the_great said:
Well, Lusty is mid-refit, and keeping her lets us maintain the smallest of fixed wing capability. Other people's jets obviously, but enough to keep people's hands in!

Who has got aircraft that can take off on a, well dunno, 150m? runway? Like nimrod i wouuld shitcan it and keep Ocean. I take it the davits work now?

Edited to add:

I always thought N Tebbitt was a pratt of the highest order but his comment "Aircraft carriers without aircraft are little more use than a pub with no beer" makes obvious sense.
 

tommo

War Hero
wurz said:
Who has got aircraft that can take off on a, well dunno, 150m? runway?

Erm correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure the Yanks have been using the Ark Royal with their planes. Hmmm yep.
 

Wilf

Midshipman
Re: BBC: "Cameron Hint That HMS Ocean Will Be Spared In Cuts

tommo said:
wurz said:
Who has got aircraft that can take off on a, well dunno, 150m? runway?

Erm correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure the Yanks have been using the Ark Royal with their planes. Hmmm yep.

and the Spanish and Italians have Sea Harrier equipped carriers too.
 

Bawsack

Lantern Swinger
Re: BBC: "Cameron Hint That HMS Ocean Will Be Spared In Cuts

pg55555 said:
Here :-

http://download.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/sdsr/factsheet6-royal-navy.pdf

Is the Cabinet Office "Fact Sheet 6: Future Force 2020 –Royal Navy"

Could someone show me where the RFA is ?

---------------

The text reads ;

Re-structuring and re-equipping to be relevant for the 21st Century

By 2020, the Royal Navy will be structured to provide:

•maritime defence of the UK and our Overseas Territories, including the South Atlantic;

•nuclear Continuous at Sea Deterrence; and

•a credible and capable presence within priority regions of the world that contributes to conventional deterrence, coercion and containment. The Royal Marines will provide:

•a very high readiness response force and a contribution to enduring land operations.

The Trident Force

Currently, there are four Vanguard-class submarines, one of which is always on patrol. Each submarine is equipped with up to 48 nuclear warheads in 12 operational launch tubes. The Vanguard-class will be replaced by new submarines from 2028. Further details are set out in the separate Trident Fact Sheet.

Carrier Strike

Our carrier strike capability will be based around a single operational carrier, with a second planned to be kept at extended readiness. This leaves open options to rotate them, to ensure a continuous UK carrier strike capability; or to regenerate more quickly a two carrier strike capability. Alternatively, we might sell one of the carriers, relying on cooperation with a close ally to provide continuous carrier strike capability. Further details are set out in the carrier strike Fact Sheet.


Frigate and Destroyer Force

The Royal Navy will be equipped with 19 frigates and destroyers to protect a Naval Task Group and meet our standing commitments at home and overseas. These will include six new Type 45 destroyers and new Type 26 frigates. This force, though smaller than at present, will provide military flexibility and choice across a variety of operations from full-scale warfare to maritime security (in particular protecting trade and energy supplies).

Hunter Killer Submarines

Seven new Astute class submarines will contribute to the protection of our nuclear deterrent and naval task groups. These nuclear powered submarines have a global reach and provide autonomous strategic intelligence and Tomahawk land attack strike capability.

Royal Marines –3 Commando Brigade

The Royal Marines’ 3 Commando Brigade will provide one element of our very high readiness response force.

The Royal Marines will be able to land and sustain a Commando Group of up to 1800 personnel by helicopter and landing craft, with protective vehicles, logistics and command and control support from a specialist landing and command ship.

Maritime Helicopters

Merlin and Wildcat maritime helicopters will provide the destroyer and frigate force with essential search and attack capabilities.
These helicopters will support counter-piracy, counter-narcotics and humanitarian missions.

Mine Countermeasures

14 Mine Countermeasures Vessels (MCMVs) will help to provide free and secure access for trade and military vessels through vulnerable sea lanes and provide a significant tier of security and protection of our nuclear deterrent.
Future MCMVs will use a common hull and modular design to support modern counter mine systems, hydrography and patrol requirements.

Logistic Support

We will have a fleet of resupply and refuelling vessels scaled to meet the Royal Navy’s requirements, and 6 roll-on, roll-off ferries.

In order to meet the Future Force 2020 structure, the Royal Navy will:

•reduce by around 5,000 to a total of c30,000 by 2015;

•decommission HMS Ark Royal immediately;

•decommission either the helicopter landing ship HMS Ocean or HMS Illustrious following a short study of which would provide the most effective helicopter platform capability, and place one landing and command ship at extended readiness;

•decommission 4 frigates and a Bay-class amphibious support ship;

•rationalise the Royal Navy estate.

Possibly not included in the Future Royal Navy composition because they arent part of the Royal Navy??
 

Joe_Crow

War Hero
Re: BBC: "Cameron Hint That HMS Ocean Will Be Spared In Cuts

pg55555 said:
Here :-

http://download.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/sdsr/factsheet6-royal-navy.pdf

Is the Cabinet Office "Fact Sheet 6: Future Force 2020 –Royal Navy"

Could someone show me where the RFA is ?

---------------

The text reads ;

Re-structuring and re-equipping to be relevant for the 21st Century

By 2020, the Royal Navy will be structured to provide:

•maritime defence of the UK and our Overseas Territories, including the South Atlantic;

•nuclear Continuous at Sea Deterrence; and

•a credible and capable presence within priority regions of the world that contributes to conventional deterrence, coercion and containment. The Royal Marines will provide:

•a very high readiness response force and a contribution to enduring land operations.

The Trident Force

Currently, there are four Vanguard-class submarines, one of which is always on patrol. Each submarine is equipped with up to 48 nuclear warheads in 12 operational launch tubes. The Vanguard-class will be replaced by new submarines from 2028. Further details are set out in the separate Trident Fact Sheet.

Carrier Strike

Our carrier strike capability will be based around a single operational carrier, with a second planned to be kept at extended readiness. This leaves open options to rotate them, to ensure a continuous UK carrier strike capability; or to regenerate more quickly a two carrier strike capability. Alternatively, we might sell one of the carriers, relying on cooperation with a close ally to provide continuous carrier strike capability. Further details are set out in the carrier strike Fact Sheet.


Frigate and Destroyer Force

The Royal Navy will be equipped with 19 frigates and destroyers to protect a Naval Task Group and meet our standing commitments at home and overseas. These will include six new Type 45 destroyers and new Type 26 frigates. This force, though smaller than at present, will provide military flexibility and choice across a variety of operations from full-scale warfare to maritime security (in particular protecting trade and energy supplies).

Hunter Killer Submarines

Seven new Astute class submarines will contribute to the protection of our nuclear deterrent and naval task groups. These nuclear powered submarines have a global reach and provide autonomous strategic intelligence and Tomahawk land attack strike capability.

Royal Marines –3 Commando Brigade

The Royal Marines’ 3 Commando Brigade will provide one element of our very high readiness response force.

The Royal Marines will be able to land and sustain a Commando Group of up to 1800 personnel by helicopter and landing craft, with protective vehicles, logistics and command and control support from a specialist landing and command ship.

Maritime Helicopters

Merlin and Wildcat maritime helicopters will provide the destroyer and frigate force with essential search and attack capabilities.
These helicopters will support counter-piracy, counter-narcotics and humanitarian missions.

Mine Countermeasures

14 Mine Countermeasures Vessels (MCMVs) will help to provide free and secure access for trade and military vessels through vulnerable sea lanes and provide a significant tier of security and protection of our nuclear deterrent.
Future MCMVs will use a common hull and modular design to support modern counter mine systems, hydrography and patrol requirements.


Logistic Support

We will have a fleet of resupply and refuelling vessels scaled to meet the Royal Navy’s requirements, and 6 roll-on, roll-off ferries.


In order to meet the Future Force 2020 structure, the Royal Navy will:

•reduce by around 5,000 to a total of c30,000 by 2015;

•decommission HMS Ark Royal immediately;

•decommission either the helicopter landing ship HMS Ocean or HMS Illustrious following a short study of which would provide the most effective helicopter platform capability, and place one landing and command ship at extended readiness;

•decommission 4 frigates and a Bay-class amphibious support ship;

•rationalise the Royal Navy estate.
 

broadside

War Hero
Re: BBC: "Cameron Hint That HMS Ocean Will Be Spared In Cuts

Passed-over_Loggie said:
This force, though smaller than at present, will provide military flexibility and choice across a variety of operations

Could someone who knows kindly explain the logic of that please? Not having the brains of a politician or 1SL, I'm failing to understand how a 19 DD/FF Flotilla can provide that aspiration.

Easy! We can either choose to do something or, because we haven't got the hulls, choose not to! How much more flexibility and choice do you need?
 

pg55555

Lantern Swinger
Re: BBC: "Cameron Hint That HMS Ocean Will Be Spared In Cuts

And what does ;


"........... We will have a fleet of resupply and refuelling vessels scaled to meet the Royal Navy’s requirements, and 6 roll-on, roll-off ferries. ........ "

mean in slimy politician-speak ?

.
 

broadside

War Hero
Re: BBC: "Cameron Hint That HMS Ocean Will Be Spared In Cuts

pg55555 said:
And what does ;


"........... We will have a fleet of resupply and refuelling vessels scaled to meet the Royal Navy’s requirements, and 6 roll-on, roll-off ferries. ........ "

mean in slimy politician-speak ?

.

I am far from fluent in slimy politician-speak but I think it will translate along the lines of "provided the FF and DD deployments don't take them too far from an alongside resupply and refuelling facility we will have enough RFAs to support them ... if they go too far from home port then they need be sure that wind and tide will be able to assist as they drift back home"

Alternatively, "we aren't going to do as much as we used to except as part of a NATO or other Alliance Task Force where we will be able to rely on our friends and allies a lot more".
 
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