Banning smoking in Phase 1

pompeyexpat

War Hero

Thoughts? At Harrogate the recruits are all under 18, whereas of course at Raleigh they aren’t, but do you think it’s a good idea, and if so would it be workable in the RN?
 

WreckerL

War Hero
I've heard this being bandied about although I haven't seen any evidence of non-smoking recruits starting smoking, the opposite may be more accurate in the RN I would have thought.

What about instructors that smoke? Will this only apply to recruits or staff? The only way I can see this working is a blanket ban across Raleigh, BRNC and Lympstone.

Banning it totally will just make people be more sneaky when they want a fag IMHO.
 

pompeyexpat

War Hero
The question has been asked of Lt Col Hall on Twitter about staff, and it was one he hadn’t answered. But then again staff can do lots of things that recruits can’t.

I agree though that if the RN followed suit it would have to be across all Phase 1 establishments. As Harrogate only trains U18’s it’s more feasible for them to act independently of other Army training schools.
 

crash_evans

Lantern Swinger
Just think of the removal of all those tab breaks.. That adds about another hour to the working day.


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WreckerL

War Hero
Just think of the removal of all those tab breaks.. That adds about another hour to the working day.


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But would a ban be implemented in Phase 2 establishments as well, considering all the training establishments don't just run courses for Phase 1 and 2?
 

crash_evans

Lantern Swinger
It’s funny this was mentioned, we have just had some nutty machines installed in the Admin office without asking over leave. Which, considering we are trying to be a Uber healthy Navy struck me as a bit odd.

If it was imposed, it would have to be in all PH1/2 training. Including RM and Officer cadre. Obviously, the latter two aren’t really associated with smoking as it’s mainly restricted to the lower deck of matelots.

I can’t say with any form of confidence that smoking has changed too much either way in my 21 years. I understand that the culture has changed in the UK over the last 5 years with the price of tabs going up to around £10 a pack. It’s especially telling that the Admiral at home (who has smoked 20 a day since she was 16 - and she’s a fair bit older now..) has recently quit as it is getting too expensive.

TL;DR: If it is imposed and (I’m not sure how they could enforce it without a change to QRRN’s) it would be across all training. What would happen when they go to the fleet and have to return for Leadership though. A can of worms I think.


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SONAR-BENDER

War Hero
Funny, when I joined up I was a non smoker. I was then informed of the value of having fag stamps and immediately became a 300 a month man!
 

Sumo

War Hero
When I first joined skimmers, less than a handful were non smokers, when I left 12yrs later the ratio seemed to have swopped, when I joined boats back to minority, non smokers, 12yrs later, the smokers were the minority, and I left 21yrs ago. Also where you could smoke on board was being reduced.
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
We went for long periods in Diesel Boats where smoking wasn't allowed, or if on the surface could go up and stand in the fin a couple at a time for a smoke, didn't seem to stop anyone from smoking when they could though.
 

Ballistic

War Hero
I've heard this being bandied about although I haven't seen any evidence of non-smoking recruits starting smoking, the opposite may be more accurate in the RN I would have thought.
Going back a long time admittedly, but quite a few of my new entry class, (16/17 year olds), joined as non-smokers, found out how cheap blue-liners were compared to civvy prices and then started smoking to save money :oops:
Peer pressure I suppose. I could never figure that one out.

Funny, when I joined up I was a non smoker. I was then informed of the value of having fag stamps and immediately became a 300 a month man!
Just before I joined up, several members of my close family had died due to smoking related issues.
On joining up I registered as a non-smoker, deliberately making myself ineligible to draw fag stamps, my reasoning being "if you want to kill yourself via tobacco you can pay for it your fucking self".

Of course, in later years when dockies, RNAD, NOIO etc. (who were used to getting bribed with fags, cigars and baccy from the Chief), realised it wasn't going to happen with me, they were taken aback a little at first, but then accepted the situation and just got on with the job.
 

witsend

MIA
Book Reviewer
It’s funny this was mentioned, we have just had some nutty machines installed in the Admin office without asking over leave. Which, considering we are trying to be a Uber healthy Navy struck me as a bit odd.

If it was imposed, it would have to be in all PH1/2 training. Including RM and Officer cadre. Obviously, the latter two aren’t really associated with smoking as it’s mainly restricted to the lower deck of matelots.

I can’t say with any form of confidence that smoking has changed too much either way in my 21 years. I understand that the culture has changed in the UK over the last 5 years with the price of tabs going up to around £10 a pack. It’s especially telling that the Admiral at home (who has smoked 20 a day since she was 16 - and she’s a fair bit older now..) has recently quit as it is getting too expensive.

TL;DR: If it is imposed and (I’m not sure how they could enforce it without a change to QRRN’s) it would be across all training. What would happen when they go to the fleet and have to return for Leadership though. A can of worms I think.


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I hear what you’re saying but...........

Massive changes during my time regarding smoking. Stopped the stamps and eventually banned onboard.

It’s a drug that has no benefit and is harmful to the body. The only folk that benefit is the tobacco company share holders. Am I wrong?

Two simple decrees that a non smoking First Sea Lord should take immediately, no tobacco allowed to be stocked on any HM Establishments, and no smoking on any HM Establishments.
He should sign it off ‘You’ll thank me after I’m dead’.

As for the nutty,,,hmmmmmmm. When I was a young thruster I seriously worried if I didn’t get to the escape hatch before the more rotund oppo’s, I would spent my last breath stuck behind a fat ********. The fitness test easied those concerns.
 

Taztiff

War Hero
On joining up I registered as a non-smoker, deliberately making myself ineligible to draw fag stamps, my reasoning being "if you want to kill yourself via tobacco you can pay for it your fucking self".

Of course, in later years when dockies, RNAD, NOIO etc. (who were used to getting bribed with fags, cigars and baccy from the Chief), realised it wasn't going to happen with me, they were taken aback a little at first, but then accepted the situation and just got on with the job.
I did exactly the same. Both parents were smokers, I never saw the attraction. I have never even tried a quick drag of one.
 

Knotty

Lantern Swinger
Gave up smoking ciggies myself over 4 years ago. It was my decision to do so and I stopped without any substitutes or assistance at close of play on an Easter Monday.

I smoked before joining the mob. When I left in 85 I remember that 200 Embassy No.1 (DF's) cost £4.80. I continued to smoke upon leaving and still miss the smoky atmosphere of a boozer, a very enjoyable smoke when taking onboard liquids!

That being said I don't doubt that it is harmful to a users health and future health prospects. In fairness I'm aware that passive smoking is unpleasant to very many. However, until it is made illegal to purchase and participate then I respectively completely disagree with the course of action being taken at Harrogate or indeed any other forces establishment.
 

pompeyexpat

War Hero
However, until it is made illegal to purchase and participate then I respectively completely disagree with the course of action being taken at Harrogate or indeed any other forces establishment.
I think that's his point, all the recruits at Harrogate are U18 and so it is illegal to sell them tobacco products, so he's intending on using the same rules regarding smoking as they do on drinking.

That's where Raleigh, BRNC and CTCRM would have a problem. They all have a mix of recruits of all ages, and however much the dangers of smoking are understood it's not illegal and if you're over 18 you can buy it legally too.

I'm not and never have been a smoker, but I also appreciate that while it's legal others have every right to indulge. Not allowing fag breaks during the training day is one thing, but to ban smoking throughout the site when there are people that smoke that live onboard is something else.
 

Sumo

War Hero
I gave up 2005 so smoked on and off my whole time in. At sea on boats we got to the stage where we had more than50% none smokers, someone wanted it to be put to a mess vote to ban smoking in the mess, they lost, some of the non smokers voted for smoking. When asked they said have you seen how grumpy some of this lot get, without a smoke. We went down to one smoking table next to extractor fan.
 

WreckerL

War Hero
My first boat there was ashtrays at every watchkeeping position and in each rack, 30 years later it was confined to the AMS and Aft Escape Platform but not an hour before scran. I still can't see a blanket ban working ashore, there's too many civvies for starters and I'm not sure how they can forced to comply.
 

slim

War Hero
Suppose I am a bad bstrd then
Non smoker but spent 12 years in the tobacco industry installing and commisioning cigarette making machinary worldwide.
I am of the opinion that everyone should refrain from smoking, but if they wish to smoke then I want them to smoke a fag made on one of my companies machines rather than a competitors.:D
When I first worked in china only prostitutes smoked.
By the time I left girls of all types had started smoking, trying to be cool and sophisticated.
I claim no credit for this fact, it just happened
 
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