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Ballistic submarines

SELJUK

War Hero
Why not rotate the SSN's to do a cycle as an SSBN sometime during its active life. After all the SSN's do just as much sea time (more) and it wouldn't be a hardship. It would be a rest cure actually, thinking about it. Rather than turning towards and giving a target grief it would turn away and remain undetected, stay in yer racks lads we're giving it a stern aspect!

I can see it now....Bomber Queens leaving in droves, because their shiny rockets have been handed over to those uncouth SSN men! :thanks:
 

Yorkie_S/M

Lantern Swinger
I do believe I read somewhere that Pres Putin was flexing Russia's muscles again. Maybe even tuning the freezer on again.
 

SELJUK

War Hero
Maybe they should think of putting a set of wheels on the Astutes. Proper shallow water ops again yaay!
Going deep.............sort of!
 

x4nd

Lantern Swinger
SELJUK said:
Why not rotate the SSN's to do a cycle as an SSBN sometime during its active life.

Do you mean SSGN or do you envisage a mid life update to fit the kit for an SSBN?

:dwarf:
 

lsadirty

War Hero
In the POLARIS era, they originally wanted 5 boats, which could always guarantee 2 at ses, but financial cutbacks led to only 4 being built. (Did the first ever bomber patrol and was bored S*&LESS !)
 

Tritech

Midshipman
SELJUK said:
Why not rotate the SSN's to do a cycle as an SSBN sometime during its active life. After all the SSN's do just as much sea time (more) and it wouldn't be a hardship. It would be a rest cure actually, thinking about it. Rather than turning towards and giving a target grief it would turn away and remain undetected, stay in yer racks lads we're giving it a stern aspect!

I can see it now....Bomber Queens leaving in droves, because their shiny rockets have been handed over to those uncouth SSN men! :thanks:

Basically Seljuk, SSN's aren't big enough to carry TridentIID5 missiles.
And in answer to Chicogiz original post, we NEED 4 boats to maintain 2BA, at the end of the day, as in all areas of the armed forces, kit goes tits up, and because of this you need that 3rd boat available to go out on patrol.
 
lsadirty said:
In the POLARIS era, they originally wanted 5 boats, which could always guarantee 2 at ses, but financial cutbacks led to only 4 being built. (Did the first ever bomber patrol and was bored S*&LESS !)

I wonder what they would have called the Fifth boat ?
 

lsadirty

War Hero
RAMILLIES - cancellation was made to save £45 million - "less cancellation charges to be negotiated". This led to the re-introduction of the delayed SSN programme. (And a whole new career in boats for me).
 
lsadirty said:
RAMILLIES - cancellation was made to save £45 million - "less cancellation charges to be negotiated". This led to the re-introduction of the delayed SSN programme. (And a whole new career in boats for me).

Ramillies seems a strange name after Resolution,Renown,Repulse and Revenge as it doesnt start RE.

Then again you couldn't call it Reliable could you !!
 

SELJUK

War Hero
x4nd said:
SELJUK said:
Why not rotate the SSN's to do a cycle as an SSBN sometime during its active life.

Do you mean SSGN or do you envisage a mid life update to fit the kit for an SSBN?

:dwarf:
Yes....why not and with the new build boats fit them for but not with. We're hearing quite a bit about modular construction. IT shouldn't be too much of a problem to slot an extra section in.

I make it sound sooooo easy I know but think about it. During refit a hell of a lot of work is going to be carried out so with a bit of forward planning NOW the slice n splice could be achieved. There's bound to be any number of reasons why it can't be done but if the will was there it could be!

Bomber Queens.....careful lads - you all could be at some time.....GLOOM!
 
SELJUK said:
Bomber Queens.....careful lads - you all could be at some time.....GLOOM!

Stand back..........willy biter about

It wouldn't be cost effective to convert SSN's to carry Trident

Trident is needed now more than ever to protect against the new threats that are out there, and the old ones that haven't gone away

And 4 boats are needed to enable the boats to be trained and maintained properly before spending 3 months under water

And if we were on a war footing, we would get them all out there
 

lsadirty

War Hero
Did not Uncle Sam introduce the first SSBN (GEORGE WASHINGTON ?) by cutting an SSN in half and sticking in the MC ? Probably still got the blueprints hanging around at EB........
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
Stretching Boats is not a new idea, the Diesel Electric T Boats were cut in half and a new section added to give more room
 

lsadirty

War Hero
Think the T-boats were extended to increase battery capacity. I can recall 2 old and bold D/E submariners in Derry singing "A-Boats and T-Boats and fecking great P -Boats" to the tune of "My favourite things". Nutty will be able to clarify ?
 

SELJUK

War Hero
Anchor_Faced_Jack said:
SELJUK said:
Bomber Queens.....careful lads - you all could be at some time.....GLOOM!

Stand back..........willy biter about

It wouldn't be cost effective to convert SSN's to carry Trident

Trident is needed now more than ever to protect against the new threats that are out there, and the old ones that haven't gone away

And 4 boats are needed to enable the boats to be trained and maintained properly before spending 3 months under water

And if we were on a war footing, we would get them all out there

Don't go all homophobic just for the chance of a cheap pun. SSN's could carry Tommahawk (with a bucket of instant sunshine warhead) if they needed to. No special training would be required as the crews already get it in the BOST, COST packages. As for staying at sea for three months...you make it sound like a problem. Most contributers on here have done extended patrols....with enhanced crews of specialists (CT's, SF, trainees) so three months, although a bind, isn't beyond the realms of sustainable fantasy
'Not cost effective'?.......Yes it would be. A possible solution to the problem of SSBN's and already you're dumping obstacles in the way. 'Get all four boats out there'..........this is a hell of a scenario your envisaging...may not be anything left after it that is worth defending.
The Government will decide when they've been pushed back far enough into a corner anyway and the decision won't be taken because it'll work or because it's cheap. It'll be decided on what gets them the most votes!
 

kgladams

Midshipman
Chicogiz said:
Why have we got 4 ballistic sumarine when there is only 1 at sea all the time and the other ones at base we only need about 2. The money could of gone on something else like the new aircraft carrier, what does everyone else think i might be wrong.

I THINK THIS PERSON IS MAD IN THE HEAD THE ONE WHO MADE THIS HAHAHa
 
SELJUK said:
Anchor_Faced_Jack said:
SELJUK said:
Bomber Queens.....careful lads - you all could be at some time.....GLOOM!

Stand back..........willy biter about

It wouldn't be cost effective to convert SSN's to carry Trident

Trident is needed now more than ever to protect against the new threats that are out there, and the old ones that haven't gone away

And 4 boats are needed to enable the boats to be trained and maintained properly before spending 3 months under water

And if we were on a war footing, we would get them all out there

Don't go all homophobic just for the chance of a cheap pun. SSN's could carry Tommahawk (with a bucket of instant sunshine warhead) if they needed to. No special training would be required as the crews already get it in the BOST, COST packages. As for staying at sea for three months...you make it sound like a problem. Most contributers on here have done extended patrols....with enhanced crews of specialists (CT's, SF, trainees) so three months, although a bind, isn't beyond the realms of sustainable fantasy
'Not cost effective'?.......Yes it would be. A possible solution to the problem of SSBN's and already you're dumping obstacles in the way. 'Get all four boats out there'..........this is a hell of a scenario your envisaging...may not be anything left after it that is worth defending.
The Government will decide when they've been pushed back far enough into a corner anyway and the decision won't be taken because it'll work or because it's cheap. It'll be decided on what gets them the most votes!

Contributor Mode

SELJUK

Got that one spot on, most of us right back to the middle 1950's (a bit before my time) have done 3 month patrols on D/E's let alone SSN or SSNB's. U-Boats in WW11 regularly did much longer Patrols while the Allies were trying to take them out 24 hours a day. What does an SSNB crew member do now 2 patrols a year Max.

Buckets of Instant Sunshine Strapped to the front of a cruise missile would suit the UK needs and could also be launched from SS boats in shallow waters.

As for stretched 'T's between 11 and 20 feet was added to increase battery and add another electric motor giving the

Engine-clutch-E/motor-clutch-E/motor-clutch-shaft and screw layout.

and underwater speeds for short periods of over 15 knots. Also the low bridge fin with a birdbath well for the radar ariel was not popular but only boats overseas and away from the Admiralty managed to get these altered to the A or P and O Boats standards.

Nutty
 

upallroundlook

Midshipman
Gents, Tomohawk is all very well but it ain't ballistic which means it can be shot down plus it has nowhere near the range of a D5 which severely limits a boat's oparea which, in turn, increases it probability of being counter-detected. I agree with an earlier dit that we have no idea what the world will be like in 20-30 years thus having a capability that both keeps us at the Big Boys top table and looks after our interests is not such a bad idea. Keep SSNs doing what they do best ie getting stuck in and SSBNs doing what they do best ie run away and remain undetected - not always as easy as people think.
 
upallroundlook said:
Gents, Tomohawk is all very well but it ain't ballistic which means it can be shot down plus it has nowhere near the range of a D5 which severely limits a boat's oparea which, in turn, increases it probability of being counter-detected. I agree with an earlier dit that we have no idea what the world will be like in 20-30 years thus having a capability that both keeps us at the Big Boys top table and looks after our interests is not such a bad idea. Keep SSNs doing what they do best ie getting stuck in and SSBNs doing what they do best ie run away and remain undetected - not always as easy as people think.

Just because Tomahawk is non ballistic does not mean that it can be shot down. Whilst not impossible, a cruise missile is in relation to any manned aircraft very small, it is also very fast, and really gets down into the weeds, therefore making defence measures difficult perhaps even extremely difficult. Granted it does not have the range of an ICBM, but I assume it is a lot cheaper meaning more bang for your buck/€/pound etc.
 
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