Bad England

Discussion in 'Diamond Lil's' started by IDOITDEEPER, Feb 18, 2008.

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  1. Although making the odd grammatical error myself, I feel that I have at least a basic grasp of the English language. Reading through various threads it perturbs me somewhat that the majority of the younger generation seem incapable of either spelling or punctuating sentences correctly. Particularly galling to see is the standard displayed by supposedly university educated members of our forum. The question I would pose is why do you think the standard of written English is so bad? Personally I believe that the text culture has at least something to do with it. What is your opinion?

    Regards to all
  2. It's the Internet and the younger generation have grown up using (and abusing) it in a manner all their own.
    They treat a post as if it were a face to face conversation and so poor spelling and grammar really doesn't seem to be a big issue for them.
    Of course it is hoped that their essay/school writing is of a higher standard, but who could say? Some of our young tyros may indeed be using TXT or rudimentary English to get the goat of our more pedantic members.
    If this were a serious or academic site your concerns might have some validity, as it is an unofficial RN/RM site, I'd recommend a nice cup of tea and a lie down.
  3. Yes I agree that a person may wish to get a point across in a forum and I have no issue with that. It matters not that the spelling or punctuation is correct to make that point. I do however feel that British education system is obviously failing our youth. I would suggest that Cambridge university are actually wrong in respect to the view held on spelling. I make this statement after attempting to, and eventually succeeding (with great difficulty) in de-cyphering the quoted paragraph!

    Have a lovely evening
  4. I don't see why this forum should be any different than any other forum to expect a reasonable standard of English. Just because most of the posts end up talking about bagging off the bird from the chippy, don't mean they have to in poor syntax and spelling.

    We all make typos at some time, they can usually be recognised and ignored, but bad English usually in the form of typing as the spoken word is not reasonably excusable.

    Who is responsible? Probably the teachers for not caring enough about standards, but (oxymoron coming) it's not the teachers fault if the kids are just not interested.
  5. perhaps it has to do with TIME... so little time so much to do. I also think it has a lot to do with mobile phones, or what we all now know as TEX talk.
    Every one rushing to say whats going on or what's up.

    Was writting a letter a while back.. having finished it i re-read it to make sure that i had passed on all the family news, only to find it was written completly in TEX talk, so i now make a real effort to NOT do TEX talk, but sadily i still cant spell.. LOL.
  6. Due to the joys of being certifiably dyslexic, I have had to sit through extra English lessons as well as the regular GCSE ones. During this time I came to the opinion that the English teachers I encountered had a worryingly shakey grasp of English language, its grammar and how to apply it.

    If the teachers are not confident in what they teach, its going to be difficult for them to instil this knowledge in their pupils.

    This is not an excuse for being personally unable in this area or a slight against the hard work of the teachers who tried to help my spelling and grammar; but rather an effort to highlight one of the circumstances that might be adding to the general English language problem.
  7. FlagWagger

    FlagWagger Book Reviewer

    Text culture, and...
    - too many years of not teaching grammar;
    - exam marking schemes that don't penalise for spelling or grammatical errors;
    - measurement of "educational standards" by means of an extremely simplistic measure open to political manipulation (GCSEs, league tables) while ignoring the requirements, and discounting the concerns, of the employer;
    - simplified exams / marking schemas designed to improve productivity of examiner rather than test the full capability of the candidate (aka multi-guess);
    - "deferred success" as a concept (they failed for God's sake - get over it!).
    - built-in spooling and grammar cheques in PC applications;
    etc. etc. etc.

    In short, mostly political pressure to "objectively" demonstrate value for money in the educational system coupled with modern technology supporting bad habits.
  8. I complty agree, non ov us cn tlk proplee ne mre. I duno how tu spel, am i lyk tha onli one or iz der lotz ov uz tht cnt tlk ne mre?

    Haha okay I dont know where that came from but I thought I would give a slight example of the world of speach that I have grown up in.

    I honestly think bad grammer is due to texting on moblies. I forget how to spell things all the time because I am so used to shortening them through text messages.... Its also a matter of some people just not having a very good grasp on the English language.

    [I tried spelling that paragraph correctly, doubt I did...]
  9. Things are getting worse in NZ. Check this out!



    Notmechief, I just noticed your signature! Are you spying on me???? :bball:
  10. Idiotdeeper
    On this we are as one. I have been making similar statement since joining RR. It is not the fault of the kids but the education system. Look at GCSE and A level results, outstanding but those attaining them cannot even communicate in written English.
  11. The kids do have to take some responsibility, I think they are a lot lazier than in years gone by, and don't seem to have the same pride in themselves or what they do any longer.
  12. I think they take pride in their textspeak and go out of their way to ignore the stadard language conventions. As ever, our all inclusive society has legitimised it and the kids (and not just kids) use it as a licence to write lazy crap. Total disregard for capital letters and punctution, say, on a "mobile" may be forgivable but not on a bloody computer keyboard.

    I differentiate clearly between textspeak and poor grammar with bad spelling. That is a function of education standards. I've occasionally had a go on here for badly written work but only to aspirants to BRNC and those who I know to know better.

    Now standing by for the application of irony by the eagle eyed ones.
  13. I wonder how many school leavers use txt spk on their job application forms. I also wonder how many actually get jobs despite their lack of ability to read and write. This is not to knock those that genuinely suffer from dyslexia, but text speak is deliberate and to use it in any situation other than that which it was designed for is a mark of laziness and a disregard for those who have to read the bloody gobbledygook.

    It seems to me that bad spelling and bad speaking has become the accepted norm, especially by the educational establishment, and this attitude has been reflected in the government's plan to drop the requirement to actually speak a foreign language (already covered in a different thread) in order to pass the exam. Once again, dumbing down of education innit.

    How long will it be before all school exams become multi-choice? "Congratulations little Timmy, you've got 20% right. That's an A* for you. Off you go to uni."
  14. Yes, yes and yes. We encourage our 9 year son to do all of these.
  15. fascinating - and there was me thinking that it was just a case of rejects from all the other services joining the RN

    one for NZB
  16. If my memory serves me correctly, I think that Pusser has also had a
    hand in the dumbing down of spelling.

    I seem to remember that, in the early 60's, there was an AFO that gave
    all Sparkers and Bunting Tossers a license to use the American form for
    spelling words like Harbour, Colour etc.

    I found the American method of spelling quite foreign and, even today,
    still feel a degree of annoyance when my Spell checker tries to force
    Americanese into my missives.

  17. Ah America and England/ Two countries separated by a common language.
  18. Hahaha. Do you know how old you people sound? I can just imagine the rickety old man voices: "Back in my day...ect. ect."

    Your theories are total BS. Half of the posts here are riddled with spelling mistakes and grammatical errors, including the people professing the stupidity of the "youth of today".

    It is not a modern problem, or an issue solely involved with "today's youth". It makes no difference if you are 15, 32 or 85 years old...there are simply some people who can spell/punctuate well and some who cannot.

    The people in my old Higher English class were writing 1000s of words every single day, and you were strongly penalised for spelling mistakes and grammatical errors. You cannot pass your exams spelling badly, you will fail.

    So quit sounding like ridiculous old men with some single track mindset that all of todays "youth" are being dumbed down. Your elders probably said the EXACT same thing.
  19. RDIAENG.

    Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe. ceehiro.

    Can be read, so even if spelling sucks and grammar is bad, as long as the person doing the reading is intelligent enough, you should be able to make it out.. :dwarf:
  20. FlagWagger

    FlagWagger Book Reviewer

    As an "old fart" can I just point out that the correct abbreviation is etc.

    If you read many of the posts that you are criticising, you'll see that very few refer to the stupidity of youth, most refer to the devaluation of the education system. If, however, you want to take this as a personal criticism then that's your business (or alternatively, the education system has not equipped you to recognise the difference!).

    I agree, after all "you can't polish a turd" - there will always be a small number of people who will be incapable of understanding the rules of English grammar no matter how well these are taught. The problem, in my opinion, is that the educational system has given up teaching these rules thereby increasing the number of people who are unable to use English properly - this is not their fault, and I'm not accusing them of stupidity, but it is a problem that affects the UK and therefore needs resolving.

    I don't believe the youth are being dumbed down; I actually believe that the pink and fluffy educationalists are selling them down the river by not teaching them the fundamental skills they need. This is not their fault, nor does identifying who is at fault help. What we need to do is recognise that teaching needs to equip people with the skills necessary to live and work and actually get on and do this rather than flip-flopping between "flavour of the month" educational theories!

    edited at least once for numpty spelling! :)

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