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Aussie rant

Is John Howard right?


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CTD, the current Australians may not have been responsible for past mistakes but they clearly benefit from them. It seems pretty hypocritical to decry the abuses committed elsewhere if you do not recognise the stains of your own history.

Also I love this paranoid feeling people have about groups wanting to take over other other groups. There are the loud mouths who shout about their "rigthts" and their "god", but most members of any ethnic minority just wants to be left alone and allowed to prosper in the land they settled in. Only problem is that the stories of these individuals don't sell papers.

By the way, even some christians are ofended by the cross as a way of remembering Jesus Christ. Why not do like the french and say no to all religious artifacts in public? Have designated religion areas like there are smoking areas. I would love to see whorshippers of all faiths herded into one corner so that the rest of us don't have to inhale any second-hand religion.
 
And to continue my rant I wish to quote from OldSnowy who posted this on the ARRSE thread that this is being linked to:

"Most of the UK is made up of immigrants – before the USA came along we were probably the most varied national mix of people anywhere. Huguenots, Jews, Irish, Chinese, Cypriots, Ugandan Asians, to name a few all have integrated well. Why don’t others want to? My view is that they probably do, but those who are against it are being supported by a liberal bunch of self-loathing *******, paid for by the public purse."

What better way to keep the masses from asking awkward questions than to focus peoples attentions on a scapegoat. I seem to recall that this worked quite well for some Austrian fellow in the first half the 20th century untill he blew his brains out in some bunker.
 
BeerBad said:
CTD, the current Australians may not have been responsible for past mistakes but they clearly benefit from them. It seems pretty hypocritical to decry the abuses committed elsewhere if you do not recognise the stains of your own history.

Also I love this paranoid feeling people have about groups wanting to take over other other groups. There are the loud mouths who shout about their "rigthts" and their "god", but most members of any ethnic minority just wants to be left alone and allowed to prosper in the land they settled in. Only problem is that the stories of these individuals don't sell papers.

By the way, even some christians are ofended by the cross as a way of remembering Jesus Christ. Why not do like the french and say no to all religious artifacts in public? Have designated religion areas like there are smoking areas. I would love to see whorshippers of all faiths herded into one corner so that the rest of us don't have to inhale any second-hand religion.

How have we benefited from the mistreatment of the Aboriginals 200 years ago? How do you suggest we make amends? Other than issue a formal Government apology for the excesses of our forebearers over 200 years ago, what else? What practical amends can be made? Compensation? Some of the claims cannot possibly be met. The members of one tribe claim Sydney as their ancestorial home and want it back. Do you propose it is a reality that 4 million people be relocated? Also your knowledge of the history of Australia is limited. We are just about to deal with a similar problem here that they faced over 100 years ago that led to the calls for a Govt apology. That is widespread abuse of Aboriginal women and children by Aboriginal men. Polititians are afraid to make decisions for fear of being labeled racist yet we stand by and allow children and women beaten and raped.

Australia has a massive immigration plan attracting people from all over the world. All it demands is that everyone goes through the approved process. Its tough illegal immigrant policies actually protect the integrity of the proper immigration process.

Nobody here is herding any group or religion into a corner. All residents are free to worship their god in their way. All the Govt says is that they must live within the rules of this nation and not drag us down into the swamp that was the nation they escaped from.

BeerBad, I can only imagine you are quite satisfied with the way things are re immigration in the uk then?
 
BeerBad also said:

What better way to keep the masses from asking awkward questions than to focus peoples attentions on a scapegoat. I seem to recall that this worked quite well for some Austrian fellow in the first half the 20th century untill he blew his brains out in some bunker.

Are you comparing Howard to Hitler? You need to get seriously in touch with what is really going on mate. Many Muslims in Australia are concerned with calls for Shia law and I suspect that below the surface in the UK it is the same.
 
come_the_day said:
Whilst Nozzy's spoof on the Oz debate is pretty apt, the current Australians are not responsible for the mistakes of their European forebears. This is the 21st century in the Christian calendar, 20th post Mohammed and I wish that UK plc would take the same stance towards any of the ethnic minorities in cosmopolitan GB whose aim is to take over our society.

The current Australians may not be responsible for the original treatment of the Aboriginal people but they have managed to perpetuate it quite well. After all for most Australians 'Abo' is still a term of derision.

Having said that I don't disagree that the present majority population has the right to set down the rules for new immigrants and point out that if the new arrivals find these oppressive they may be better looking elsewhere.

Peter
 
Do most Australians use Abo as a term of derision? I wonder if that many use it at all, but I have never been there, myself. My relatives in Oz tell me that it is a society that reflects most of the modern approach to multicuturalism that we enjoy in the UK. Whilst most of us accept all nationalities without favour, there are still those whose views are racist beyond my comprehension. Some of my best friends are white Brits!
 
Jasper said:
BeerBad also said:

What better way to keep the masses from asking awkward questions than to focus peoples attentions on a scapegoat. I seem to recall that this worked quite well for some Austrian fellow in the first half the 20th century untill he blew his brains out in some bunker.

Are you comparing Howard to Hitler? You need to get seriously in touch with what is really going on mate. Many Muslims in Australia are concerned with calls for Shia law and I suspect that below the surface in the UK it is the same.

Jasper, you simply back up my statement by claiming many muslims are concerned about how things are going. The problem with statements like the one we are discussing is that they marginalise groups and not behaviour. I am sure that there are already laws against incitement in OZ.

Also I don't believe that there is any way that reparations can be made for mistakes so far back in the past apart from recognising that they happened and making sure that they are not repeated.

I am not happy with the way everything is run in the UK but what really hacks me off is the way it all gets reported in order to sensationalise events to sell more papers.
 
Yeah I heard "Abo" used several times whilst over there, in fact that was the only dark side of Aus for me, there is still a bit of open racism. A bit like the UK in the 70's.
 
Skunkmiester said:
Yeah I heard "Abo" used several times whilst over there, in fact that was the only dark side of Aus for me, there is still a bit of open racism. A bit like the UK in the 70's.

We have the same thing in NZ Maori land was stolen by the whites. Not forgetting the Maori paddled into the place long ago and claimed squatters rights. Was there anybody living there at the time? did they go in the pot.

Can I claim political asylum and settle down in the HAWKES BAY area please stating I cannot afford to live in the UK anymore. Three NZ dollars to the pound and a sea full of fish and food that tastes like real food sounds good! KIA ORA!
 
come_the_day said:
Whilst Nozzy's spoof on the Oz debate is pretty apt, the current Australians are not responsible for the mistakes of their European forebears. This is the 21st century in the Christian calendar, 20th post Mohammed and I wish that UK plc would take the same stance towards any of the ethnic minorities in cosmopolitan GB whose aim is to take over our society.

I do not believe in God, nor do I want any religion to tell me what to do or believe, but I respect those to whom God is important. Good is more important, so if you don't like our way of life, find somewhere else to live. That's all the Aussies are saying and I agree.

The Palestinians were not responsible for the expulsion of the Jews from Israel by the Assyrians. Nor were they responsible for the Christian Holocaust (remember Hitler was a lapsed Christian and was not excommunicated by Pope Pius XII until 1945) itself the culmination of over a millenium's worth of anti-Semitic hatred by the Universal, and also later, Lutheran, churches: both of which Hitler, at various times in his life, was a member of! European anti-Semitism led, via lobbying, to the Balfour Declaration of 1917 which promised a Jewish homeland in the then British Protectorate of Palestine. The point of this? You cannot divorce the present from the past!

To take the 'if you don't like the majority culture, get out' reasoning to its logical conclusion should we be asking Roman Catholics to leave Britain for Italy, Classicists to live in ancient Rome and Greece (fat chance) and gays to leave - for where precisely? At least lesbians have Lesbos and matelots have Shotley Gate!
 
[quote="NozzyNozzer

To take the 'if you don't like the majority culture, get out' reasoning to its logical conclusion should we be asking Roman Catholics to leave Britain for Italy, Classicists to live in ancient Rome and Greece (fat chance) and gays to leave - for where precisely? At least lesbians have Lesbos and matelots have Shotley Gate![/quote]

I'm not saying "If you don't like it, get out" and nor are the Aussies. The sentiment is that if you want to foist your alien views on us, get out, which is perfectly reasonable, in my view.

The trouble is that it appears to be the objective of radical Islam to subjugate the world and convert all its people to the Islamic code. I'm not for that approach!
 
Have recently come back from visiting the land Down Under and can see Howards point. Go into Melbourne City and you see every race imaginable but the biggest thing is they all consider themselves Aussies.

My relatives moved out there years ago. They have British Passports, were born here etc but when you ask them 'what nationality are you?' the answer is always the same 'Australian'. Seems that Oz is a nation that is more than happy to take people in, absorb them into the community but only, and quite rightly, if you are prepared to adopt everything Australian as your own.

Can we claim we impose the same thing on the people seeking asylum here? :roll:
 
come_the_day said:
[quote="NozzyNozzer

To take the 'if you don't like the majority culture, get out' reasoning to its logical conclusion should we be asking Roman Catholics to leave Britain for Italy, Classicists to live in ancient Rome and Greece (fat chance) and gays to leave - for where precisely? At least lesbians have Lesbos and matelots have Shotley Gate!

I'm not saying "If you don't like it, get out" and nor are the Aussies. The sentiment is that if you want to foist your alien views on us, get out, which is perfectly reasonable, in my view.

The trouble is that it appears to be the objective of radical Islam to subjugate the world and convert all its people to the Islamic code. I'm not for that approach![/quote]

That's understandable, but don't forget that Christian fundamentalists have been seeking to do just that in Europe, the US and Britain for several years. They believe that whilst they should have the liberty to believe, articulate and practice their beliefs and they should be entitled to legislate their beliefs upon others, they are also entitled to denying similar rights upon those who do not share their beliefs. So what can we do about radical Christianity?
 
asst_dep_to_dep_asst said:
Do most Australians use Abo as a term of derision? I wonder if that many use it at all, but I have never been there, myself. My relatives in Oz tell me that it is a society that reflects most of the modern approach to multicuturalism that we enjoy in the UK. Whilst most of us accept all nationalities without favour, there are still those whose views are racist beyond my comprehension. Some of my best friends are white Brits!

I have recently spent two long holidays in Oz spent with friends who live on the Northern Beaches Area of Sydney. They were kindergarten to Adult Friends who did the £10 passage about 38 years ago. With them we did three long road trips around Queensland, NSW and Victoria. In MY opinion Oz is possibly the best country in the world to bring up kids and live in.

Are they racist? Very, even at every day BBQ's with middle class families of all ages in the three states mentioned, the conversation on racial matters was that of UK in the 70's. Abo's are both looked down on and seen as a pampered group of lazy drunks and nare-do-wells who sponge off the state. ABC's Australian Born Chinese's see themselves as better than any other Chinese group in the World but do not integrate. Middle Eastern immigrants from Lebanon, to Afghanistan, appear to be heavily involved in crime in NSW if the papers are to be believed. This includes many shootings and sex offences.

In the UK until the Muslim fraternity raised their heads above the parapet all our woes were blamed on West Indians. All of a sudden they have become respectable, as with the Irish, Huguenots, Jews, Saxon's, Vikings, Normans etc.

We cannot turn the clock back but need to understand todays whipping boys are Tomorrow respected citizens. So what are you lot doing to assimilate the Celtic Culture that you and your ancestors have drowned. If you are not prepared to accept the traditions of the original occupants get out.

Well that about 90% of them that have posted on this thread should be at Heathrow in the morning on their way back to Northern Europe.

Don't ask, I am in Spain as a guest, low profile, don't upset the Guardia Civil, pay my taxes.

Nutty
 
BeerBad said:

Jasper, you simply back up my statement by claiming many muslims are concerned about how things are going. The problem with statements like the one we are discussing is that they marginalise groups and not behaviour. I am sure that there are already laws against incitement in OZ.

I think you misunderstood what I said. Many Muslims in Australia are not happy that the more extreme Muslims are pushing for Shia law to be formally recognised and are happy that the Australian Govt is rejecting that call. Two of my employees are Muslims, both born here and very much westernised Muslims. They have no desire to live in what they call an 'old world' lifestyle.

Just on racism. Australia is no better or worse than any western country I've visited. I'm sometimes embarrassed by our lack of tollerance.
 

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