Discussion in 'Diamond Lil's' started by Nutty, Jun 5, 2007.

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  1. Is it just me or do I observe a distance in attitudes opening up on various subjects between the regular male posters and the regular female 30 something posters.

    IMHO it seems that the ladies appear to take a line that it is not the responsibility of the individual for their actions but that of society, the victims, the Government, Education, Social Services, Employers etc that are to blame for people making poor life style decisions.

    I see the problem being that a many in our population think:

    They have numerous RIGHTS
    They are never the author or responsible for their own actions
    They are entitled to a GOOD job
    They do not have to study or work to obtain that job
    When they start a job they are experts and do no have anything to learn
    They are entitled to exact revenge on any person with whom the do not like or disagree.
    Attitude to both co-workers and customers does not matter
    Parents have no responsibility for their children
    Their children can do no wrong and never lie
    No person can discipline their children
    Children should never be disciplined
    Death of any person is a totally tragedy and all should don sack cloth and ashes
    Compensation is a right and ones own actions have no bearing on the matter
    Good class housing in a nice area is a right.
    I want to be a rich and famous therefore it is unfair if I am not, I do not have to have talent or skill.

    Some may have more to add to ths list

    Going deep shutting off for attack

  2. who rattled your cage this morning nutty?!!!!
  3. Nutty, you may be right! Listened to a bloke on the TV yesterday trying to tell us that the poor youth of today were badly behaved scumbags because they often were poor and had no father figure at home........mmmm. Just after WW1 wasn't there poverty and lots of kids with no fathers (killed in the war)? So why didn't they turn out like our current crop of chavs?
  4. Good posting Nutty, no depth charges being dropped from this punter. However I admit to being an extremely right wing individual who perceives life in black and white with very few shades in between. I also think Attila the Hun and Genghis Khan had an extremely liberal attitude to life.
  5. Nutty, do you value your life?

  6. Not much of it left and the missus will get the insurance. I just thought of recent the ladies were showing very liberal and IMHO self/nearest and dearest views where children/Y.Adults are not held responsible for anything.

    Yesterday a local 30 something neighbour got all upset when I suggested that bad behavviour in school was the fault of the children who behaved badly and not the teacher. It was not the place of teachers to instruct or teach good behaviour and respect but that it was the place of the parent to teach and ensure the standards were met. If a teacher struck a child I would and certainly parents in my day gave the school 100% unconditionl support whatever the circumstances. Only extreme violence would make consider other wise.

  7. Good point you've raised there Nutty.
    If, for whatever reason, I was given a smack at school by a teacher, the first thing my parents would've done is tell ME off for getting a smack in the first place. Then I would've had "consequentials" too!! These days? Well, we all know what would happen these days don't we.
  8. I remember when I was about 8 yrs old, I was going to a RC convent school in harsleden , middlex. I was sub –consciously tapping my pencil against the table, asked around 4 times to stop by the teacher (who is a nun) but I kept doing it. She had me out in front of the class, held my hands out, palm facing up and caned my hands 3 times. They were red and sore for a day, I got home and my mum and gran didn’t give me sympathy but said;

    You most probably deserved it!
  9. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

    It's funny how more right wing you get, the older you get :thumright:
  10. School Yeah ! minor offence cuts with a cane on the open palm
    Serious offence six of the best on the bum before assembly

    With the latter the humiliation hurt more than the cane I understand although, TF , I didn't experience it . The cuts on the palm bloody hurt though especially on a cold winters day farcanal . I didn't run home crying as I would have got some more for good measure .
  11. Even funnier when as I got older I joined Greenpeace and vote either Liberal or Green when I voted in UK elections. Now they take my tax but will not let me vote.

    Because I believe in Respect for others and their property and Responsibility towards your fellow human being hardly makes me right wing.

    And than again you are not right wing. This was you post taken from the Big Issue thread 4th of June 07.

    "WarMonger wrote:
    Come the revolution!

    Herald the Civil War.....

    Its only a matter of time before this country explodes or implodes under the strain of our open door policy to the waifs and strays of the my lifetime who knows!!

    Whose side would you fight on..!! End of Warmongers post[hr]

    "The Wonderer wrote
    I think eventually it's inevitable, and personally I'd welcome it.

    Kick the leeches out I say" end of The Wonderer reply[


    Need I say more

  12. Good points well made Nutty. A voice of reason, have you thought about a life in Politics. Probably get nowhere as your views would not meet approval with the underclass that ihabits this country today and relies on the state to sponsor their superstar lifestyle.
  13. I dont entirely get your meaning with that one Nutty, but if you thought I was somehow "having a go" at you - I was'nt.

    Sorry if you got that impression

    (not the first time my sense of humour has landed me in it)
  14. Possibly a similar vein...Heard whilst waiting for my son to come out of school;

    "I don't believe they get homework..why should I do homework with them, thats the job of the teacher, if they are not going to teach them they should not do the job"

    I could only guess what else they were not responible for where their children where concerned.

  15. People with these political views dont get elected because the electorate that agree with them choose not to vote, stating they are "all as bad as each other" and preferring to go to the pub and drip to their mates about it instead. We get the Government and therefore the policies we deserve.
  16. It is funny isn't it that nowadays if a kid gets hit by a teacher, the parent is at the school in a flash suing etc whereas in my days at school you daren't tell your mum you got the cane due to the doing you would get.
    geoff(ers) :nemo:
  17. Ditto! I went to irrational lengths to conceil the fact that I'd been punished for things at school.
  18. For those who claim one gets more conservative as the years roll by, I'm afraid that that is a stereotype. I've grown more liberal as my hairline has receeded and the white hairs have proliferated. When I was a Prefect a school I was fairly strict, though if I felt sorry for someone I usually let them off. Nowerdays I would refuse to be a Prefect in the first place!

    I share Nutty & Slim's view that there is a real problem with many parents inculcating a culture of disobediance to behavioural rules and legal norms through an unwillingness to actually practice parenting, electing instead to pass the buck anywhere else they can. That is why I believe that transgressing parents ought to be publically punished: perhaps the Pillory, naming & shaming (if this works) or higher direct taxation for parents in work and mulct of benefits for those who rely on the state for their income. Only by a punitive approach that personally deprives the parents of pleasures, etc, are you likely to achieve change. Perhaps we need Detention Centres of delinquent parents and weekly spells of Shotley Routine for them!!! :biggrin:

    Can I volunteer to supervise the PM running up and down the stone stairs in Westminster Hall :biggrin:
  19. Well some pretty broad assumptions and I'd disagree that there is really a gulf as you describe it, there is a camp who tend towards simplistic descriptions of phenomena and a camp who tend towards a more nuanced debate, but I don't think it divides down gender lines.

    I think in the example you cite you are comparing two different things. It is quite reasonable to reconcile the view that the individual is responsible for their actions and should be managed as such, with the view that societal influences tend to discourage individual responsibility.

    I'd agree that much of what we see in the media, and indeed in many daily interactions, there is a lack of awareness of personal responsibility, but I'd also disagree with the suggestion upthread that it breaks down into individual segments of society; low income/ high expenditure is most visible in the right wing media, but I'm unconvinced of the level of issue in that case.

    The social contract does appear to have become very unbalanced, the examples cited tend towards the rearing of children and that is probably where the greatest impact could be should one wish to address the issue. In even recent history many children were not reared by an individual or couple in isolation, but in many cases by a more extended family, perhaps including friends; sharing the load, socialising children from an early age and frequently including grandparents, but not as a primary carer.

    The migration to the smaller family unit does seem to have an effect, increasing risk aversion and reducing early socialisation. There was a report by the Childrens Society published today being discussed on Radio 4 this morning at about 0615, finding that increasingly risk averse parenting was leading to poor emotional and societal maturity in mid to late teens, with parents continuing close supervision until, on average, aged 14. That strikes me as insane.
  20. Nutty, when you start threads like "send the buggers back" and "all poofs should be burnt", "scarsers, I fackin ate em I do, thieves the lot of em", what do you really expect? Maybe you're just stirring the pot for a flash, and maybe you're not nearly as bigoted/prejudiced/right of Tebbit as you might sound on these pages but forums are notoriously bad at conveying humour, especially jacks own brand, so if you are in fact green and fluffy and enjoying your dotage in the sun with a glass of bubbly, why not let it come across in your posts more.

    I happen to agree with Karma, I don't think you'd find you disagree so much with the 30-somethings, most of us who have served or were around those who do have a sense of personal and collective responsibility. The attitude to crime and punishment has certainly changed, not all for the worse in my opinion, and fings weren't so different in your day, but I think you'd get far less friction if you let people know when you weren't entirely serious, and probably would find more of a concensus if you try to imagine how your posts are perceived by people of slightly differing viewpoints to your own.

    Of course Im far more thick skinned and will think no less of you when you tell me where to stick my two pennorth (its jacks way of showing he cares right ;) ), but the modern era of instant communication has brought us all a new challenge which I essentially categorise as "Think before you hit send/post/submit". I try to and dont always succeed, but I try.

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