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slim said:
Unfortunately Maxi in crime statistics race plays its part.

The majority of Gun crime and Drug dealing is carried out by members of the black Afrocaribean community.

The majority of crimes such as embezzlement , fraud and deception are carried out by white middle class professionals.

Until we can cross train our criminals we will be stuck with categorisation

Where I live most of the gun crime and drug dealing is done by white people, and I suspect you will find the same in many towns, the reality is gun, drug, mugging etc are the crimes of the under class, and what that underclass looks like will depend on the population mix in the area, if you have made the underclass in your area mainly AFro/Carribean then naturally they will hit the high spots in the typical underclass crimes.

Interestingly one sees far more people with an Indian Subcontinent background becoming involved in embezzlement etc, once again as people move into various socio ecconomic groups they adopt the local crimes. What crimes a person becomes involved in has I suspect much more to do with his/her socio economic group thatn race.
 
Maxi_77 said:
slim said:
Unfortunately Maxi in crime statistics race plays its part.

The majority of Gun crime and Drug dealing is carried out by members of the black Afrocaribean community.

The majority of crimes such as embezzlement , fraud and deception are carried out by white middle class professionals.

Until we can cross train our criminals we will be stuck with categorisation

Where I live most of the gun crime and drug dealing is done by white people, and I suspect you will find the same in many towns, the reality is gun, drug, mugging etc are the crimes of the under class, and what that underclass looks like will depend on the population mix in the area, if you have made the underclass in your area mainly AFro/Carribean then naturally they will hit the high spots in the typical underclass crimes.

Interestingly one sees far more people with an Indian Subcontinent background becoming involved in embezzlement etc, once again as people move into various socio ecconomic groups they adopt the local crimes. What crimes a person becomes involved in has I suspect much more to do with his/her socio economic group thatn race.

The following site contains a wealth of information, including a breakdown on convictions bases on numbers per thousand for all races. Though there are far more whites in prison the numbers per thousand conviction is lower than for black or mixed race. Thought the Asian population have the lowest rate of all.

http://www.cjsonline.gov.uk/downloads/application/pdf/Race_and_the_cjs.pdf
 
slim said:
The following site contains a wealth of information, including a breakdown on convictions bases on numbers per thousand for all races. Though there are far more whites in prison the numbers per thousand conviction is lower than for black or mixed race. Thought the Asian population have the lowest rate of all.

http://www.cjsonline.gov.uk/downloads/application/pdf/Race_and_the_cjs.pdf

I would not argue with that, but do they break down the figures by socio economic grouping as well, that was my point.

Perhaps the low apparent crime rate for Asians is down to the high proportion of Muslims and the far greater religious taboos regarding crime in the Muslim faith, perhaps coupled with the Indian culture of getting on and working for a living.
 
Maxi poverty is no excuse for criminal activity. The way our benefit system works many at the bottom of the socio economic scale are receiving more in financial aid than many serving sailors receive as pay. This coupled with most of them having social workers to turn to for help when problems occur should ensure a crime free life.

However in reality the lazy bast@rds will not work but expect to receive all the benefits of a successful career, BMW car, lots of bling etcetera.
I'm sick of namby pamby do gooders blaming the crimes of scum on the fact that they come from the poorer section of the population.
 
:sad: Big brother is here so I won't be going into any details on race & crime but I have to say that all this rubbish about your background being some kind of excuse to rape & pillage is utter crap. Like you all, I know lots of people brought up on shitty council estates, one parent family etc etc and have done well for themselves, no one forces the individual to commit crime, take drugs, carry knives & guns, its their choice & thats that, We can all make an excuse for doing something against the law or that which is morally wrong but we don't because we live by a code of practise & most of us make the effort to live a peaceful life, pay our taxes & our way in life without intruding on others to do so on our behalf. I could go on forever, I was dragged up on a shitty council estate, had three Fathers, various Uncles over the years & have managed to make a good life for myself. I never turned to drugs or armed robbery to fund my life style. :sad:
 
HORNBLOWER said:
:sad: Big brother is here so I won't be going into any details on race & crime but I have to say that all this rubbish about your background being some kind of excuse to rape & pillage is utter crap. Like you all, I know lots of people brought up on shitty council estates, one parent family etc etc and have done well for themselves, no one forces the individual to commit crime, take drugs, carry knives & guns, its their choice & thats that, We can all make an excuse for doing something against the law or that which is morally wrong but we don't because we live by a code of practise & most of us make the effort to live a peaceful life, pay our taxes & our way in life without intruding on others to do so on our behalf. I could go on forever, I was dragged up on a shitty council estate, had three Fathers, various Uncles over the years & have managed to make a good life for myself. I never turned to drugs or armed robbery to fund my life style. :sad:

Hornblower, you and many more have done this. No excuses for the scum who try to blame poverty for their crimes.
 
slim said:
Maxi poverty is no excuse for criminal activity. The way our benefit system works many at the bottom of the socio economic scale are receiving more in financial aid than many serving sailors receive as pay. This coupled with most of them having social workers to turn to for help when problems occur should ensure a crime free life.

However in reality the lazy bast@rds will not work but expect to receive all the benefits of a successful career, BMW car, lots of bling etcetera.
I'm sick of namby pamby do gooders blaming the crimes of scum on the fact that they come from the poorer section of the population.

I never said that poverty is an excuse for crime, and in no way would I ever suggest that poor criminals are in any way justified by their poverty in indulging in criminal acts. Having said that it is still the case that the bulk of criminals do come from the lower socio economic groups, and as for various reasond a large number of the Afro Caribean populationof this country fall into the lower socio economic groups perhaps their criminality is not just related thotheir ethnic origins.

As to the benefit system having lived, before my escape to the Kingdom, in an estate knicknamed 'Little Bosnia' because of the anti social behaviour etc that was prevalent there, most of the inhabitants would have been glad to upgrade to a servicemans pay from benefits. Yes some manage to work the system but most survive on amounts that make an ABs pay look generous. Perhaps it is not surprising that they get involved with drugs to gat away from real life. Getting high on amphetamines cost less than getting high on Buckfast, of course once hooked on the amphetamines the road to 'better stuff' is easy for the pusher, then comes the housebreaking to pay for it. and another one goes down the drain. Our local plods reckoned that in the area 90% of the theiving was to buy drugs.

I am not an apologist for criminals, I am just more interested in stopping criminality happening than getting my rocks of on thinking up nasty punishments for them.
 
I agree with your sentiments Maxi, however I think that stopping criminality without harsher punishments is living in a dream world. You correctly state that most crime (blue collar) is committed by those from the lower socio economic groups. These groups contain a larger ratio of non whites than other groups. Reason for this is lack of educational skills in these groups. So what is the reason for this lack of education? The areas of high deprivation have for at least a decade been flooded with extra finances to try and combat this problem but it doesn't seem to be working. The answer must be in the individual, you can take a horse to water.........
Harsher, longer, tougher penalties for crime, especially drug and violent crime or drug related crime (shoplifting, burglary, mugging etc. to pay for drugs) must be the answer. Finally the ridiculous situation where prisoners are able to sue the government because they were not supplied with drugs must be stopped.

As for benefit claiments being worse off than working junior rates, I do not have the figures for this. There is an expert working in this field on the site though. Perhaps he can tell us the figure a single person living away from home on maximum benefits can achieve.
 
In the immortal words of Sir Michael Jackson:

I took my baby
On a Saturday bang
Boy is that girl with you
Yes we´re one the same

Now I believe in miracles
And a miracle
Has happened tonight
But, if
You´re thinkin´
About my baby
It don´t matter if you´re
Black or white

They print my message
In the Saturday sun
I had to tell them
I ain´t second to none

And I told about equality
And it´s true
Either you´re wrong
Or you´re right

But, if
You´re thinkin´
About my baby
It don´t matter if you´re
Black or white

I am tired of this devil
I am tired of this stuff
I am tired of this business
Sew when the
Going gets rough
I ain´t scared of
Your brother
I ain´t scared of no sheets
I ain´t scared of nobody
Girl when the
Goin´gets mean

Protection
For gangs, clubs,
And nations
Causing grief in
Human relations
It´s a turf war
On a grobal scale
I´d rather hear both sides
Of the tale
See, it´s not about races
Just places
Faces
Where your blood
Comes from
Is where your space is
I´ve seen the bright
Get duller
I´m not going to spend
My life being a color

Don´t tell me you agree
With me
When I saw you
Kicking dirt in my eye

But, if
You´re thinkin´
About my baby
It don´t matter if you´re
Black or white

I said if
You´re thinkin´of
Being my baby
It don´t matter if you´re
Black or white

I said if
You´re thinkin´ of
Being my brother
It don´t matter if you´re
Black or white

Ooh, ooh
Yea, yea, yea now
Ohh, ohh
Yea, yea, yea now

It´s black, it´s white
It´s tough for them
To get by
It´s black, it´s white, whoo

It´s black, it´s white
It´s tough for them
To get by
It´s black, it´s white, whoo
 
slim said:
I agree with your sentiments Maxi, however I think that stopping criminality without harsher punishments is living in a dream world. You correctly state that most crime (blue collar) is committed by those from the lower socio economic groups. These groups contain a larger ratio of non whites than other groups. Reason for this is lack of educational skills in these groups. So what is the reason for this lack of education? The areas of high deprivation have for at least a decade been flooded with extra finances to try and combat this problem but it doesn't seem to be working. The answer must be in the individual, you can take a horse to water.........
Harsher, longer, tougher penalties for crime, especially drug and violent crime or drug related crime (shoplifting, burglary, mugging etc. to pay for drugs) must be the answer. Finally the ridiculous situation where prisoners are able to sue the government because they were not supplied with drugs must be stopped.

As for benefit claiments being worse off than working junior rates, I do not have the figures for this. There is an expert working in this field on the site though. Perhaps he can tell us the figure a single person living away from home on maximum benefits can achieve.

Making the penalties harsher will make b*gger all difference if you don't make sure that more get caught and convicted, detection and conviction are by far greater deterants than harsher sentences becaus eif you know the chances of being caught and convicted are slim then why worry about the consequences. Throwing away the key has no real impact on the guys you have not caught, after all when petty theiving resulted in the gallows people still stole.
 
Maxi
In the days when petty thieves were sent to the gallows, the situation for the thief was a little different than today. It was steal or your family starve to death. Today we have the wonderful social and no one starve.
Its not the length of time spent in prison which will stop a prisoner from re-offending it is the conditions. Make prison time the same as the old DQ time and then see the re -offending rate drop. Bring back the death penalty for drug dealing, OK lets be soft and only use it on the third time of conviction. Singapore does not seem to have a problem with drugs.
Finally while the thieving bast@rds are locked up, they are not thieving.
 

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