Are we are entitled to know?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by finknottle, Feb 20, 2009.

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  1. It is my feeling that as well being informed by the media about combat fatalities in our Armed Forces serving in war zones we should also be told when any of them suffers catastrophic injuries such as amputations. As they serve in our name and are paid by the taxpayer these facts should not be withheld from the general public. I imagine the reason is that the powers that be do not want us to know the full horror of war as it could turn public opinion against our involvement but that does not make it right.
  2. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    Even if the injured or their family wish otherwise? Having said that, I expect that the information you feel is your right is already out there. Does the name Mark Ormond ring any bells?
  3. Of course the public should be aware of casualties, then a few more of them may appreciate what the Armed Forces are doing in their name.
    Whilst amputees are a more obvious casualty, those with head and brain injuries caused by the massive shock waves of many of the IEDs may well be a bigger cause for concern in the future. The amputee may well be able to recover some of their former ability and lead a comparatively 'normal' life. Those suffering trauma to the brain may have to be cared for (And hopefully not forgotten and left to rot in some godforsaken private 'Hospital' as has happened in the US) for years with little hope of recovery.
    The Politicians who send these fine young men and women to fight should spend their weekends changing dressings rather than swanning off to Chequers for some R&R to recover from the travails of their 'onerous' jobs.
  4. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

  5. witsend

    witsend War Hero Book Reviewer

    I think I see what your trying to say, but I don't see the six o'clock news reporting "3 servicemen lost their left leg, 2 lost their sight this month". Can't see that kind of reporting catching on. I'm sure there will be stats somewhere for you to look at.
  6. Now there's a man who deserves some proper recognition - if he hasn't already been written up for an OBE then someone needs a rocket up their jacksie
  7. I think Fink has a point. The MOD story is not about how many troops have received 'Life changing wounds'. It's about a guy who's battled to achieve something amazing despite his. The fact that another soldier has lost a leg may not be as interesting to news editors as Jade Goodys wedding but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be reported.

    There have been a handful of high profile cases, like Mark Ormerod, Ben McBean and Ben Parkinson, but that in now way reflects the actual numbers of guys that are coming back missing bits. I heard a figure the other day of 3 Cdo Brigade having in excess of 70 guys having suffered a life changing injury in this latest deployment, up to Christmas. That's things like severe head injuries, amputations and the like. That sort of statistic should make the news. The exact figures may be available somewhere, if you know where to look, but should be out in the public domain for everyone to see.
  8. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Fink: You often claim that "da kidz" today want all their knowledge and information spoon-fed to them, especially potential recruits in 'Newbies' threads. But it appears you now want the same privilege extended to you? Get off your champagne Socialist pedestal and perhaps offer to work as a volunteer at a rehabilitation centre, or get in touch with any one of the Forces' welfare organisations to see how you can help the very people you claim to 'care' about... :oops: :roll:
  9. I'm in two minds about this one. Whereas it could be considered as the role of the Armed Forces is to protect the country and the people of Great Britain, that part of that role is protecting the civilian populace from the full horror of war. It is upsetting to read about casulties in Iraq and Afghanistan, and such upset could cause the Government to withdraw our troops from these theatres for fear of further negative public opinion. For some people this would be a positive change, as there are doubts about the legality and righteousness of our involvement in the muslim countries.

    However, by initiating such a policy would render HM Armed Forces into a 'paper tiger', as politicians would be too afraid to deploy them into a theatre where they might possibly get hurt or even killed in the line of duty. The most prominent case study I can immediately think of is US foreign policy during the beginning of the second world war. The US populace, having witnessed the horrors of the Great War, were in no mind to have the country involved in another war in Europe. President Roosevelt would not even donate mothballed ships to the Royal Navy for fear of losing his office in the next election.

    America didn't volunteer into the second world war, it was forced into it by Japan.

    On the other hand by giving such publicity to the injuries suffered by sailors, soldiers and airmen then public opinion may force the Government to better provide for the welfare of those with life-changing injuries; re-opening of the Royal Naval Hospital at Haslar, for example? Perhaps the Ministry of Defence will be given a larger budget to equip more soldiers with Osprey CBA, or to replace the Snatch Land-Rovers with Warriors.

    Help for Heroes is already doing everything it can to assist the wounded, providing funding for prosthetic limbs, physiotherapy, and hospitalisation. However none of HM Armed Forces award a financial compensation for injuries (that I'm aware of), but advise personnel to take out a life insurance policy (eg Pax). Public opinion could possibly change this, but only if the mundane statistics are reported in the daily newspapers, and broadcast on the television.
  10. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Not to mention some negligent/selective dissemination of intelligence about the imminent attack on Pearl Harbour from dear old Winston S. Churhill... :oops:
  11. wet_blobby

    wet_blobby War Hero Moderator

    "life changing injuries" When did this PC phrase get dreamed up and used? It almost has a positive spin on it....."Jonny had a life changing moment and from then on everything was rosy"..

    Are we to embarrassed to say "poor Jonny got blown up and lost his legs and arms, fcuked his life up now"

    The wounded have never been good media print, I think wounded statistics have never been readily available for media scrutiny because no-ones really asked for them before, the hacks where happy with the deaths. Unfortunately for them military medicine has come along way and more and more people are now surviving what would have been fatal injuries.

    Delicate issue. Who wants to know and for what purpose? genuine concern or to use as a beating stick? Both valid reasons to the people wanting the info.
  12. Nice try but that's not what I mean and you know it, I am also delighted to hear that you put me on a pedestal.

    And I do care about them with good reason you cheeky jumped up little man.
  13. To the best of my knowledge the MoD has continued to refuse to disclose the number of troops who have suffered traumatic amputations on the battlefield or who have had limbs removed during surgery. The Brits are a generous people and would be only too willing to help if the statistics were better known.
  14. Frankly it does seem to me that the numbers of those injured in the present conflicts are a little 'hidden'.
    Certainly we get told when there are fatalities, but less is known of those who come back injured.
    There is nothing published in the press, no lists, nothing really.
    I am sure that if the general public was made more aware, and obviously so, they would be much more supporting.
  15. Fink you have hit the nail right on the head. The MOD since the Iraq Invasion of 2003 has been covering up the details of battlefield casualties. It is a situation that has been probed by journalists on numerous occasions but to no avail. This Afghan campaingn is no different. I for one believe that the goverment will not disclose such details for fear of public outcry of instant troop withdrawals. I remember about 4 years ago meeting a resident of St Dunstans hospital of Blinded veterans in my hometown of Brighton who informed me he had never seen such an influx of new intakes since the second world war, this was obviously during the worst periods of the Iraqi occupation. I personally know of stacks of Bootnecks seriously wounded and with amputations from Both Iraq and Afghanistan. It is so commonplace that i even know of an old oppo who had both legs aputated 2 days ago.
    Is it a conspiracy of the Goverment to keep hidden the Statistics of the seriously wounded in todays conflicts??
    In my opinion yes it is.
    For the Numpties who honestly believe it isn't made public as it would'nt make interesting headlines i say..
    '' Bollix get your head out of your arse!''
  16. lukep, if its Royal he is now back in the UK and doing as well as can be expected.
  17. I'm not sure we do. I agree with the sentiment - the public need to be aware just how many seriously wounded people are out there - but I'm close friends with one of the 'seriously injured', and the reason his story hasn't been all over the papers is because he didn't want it to be. He's not alone either - a fair number of disabled veterans don't want the publicity.

    I think it might be a good idea to publicise a figure of how many seriously injured personnel there have been, but obviously it's the stories people would be interested in.
  18. Good to here Fink, I heard from a mortars lad the other day about it.
    Great lad, im sure he will remain positive he's a southerner therefore he is nails.
  19. I don't want to see stories especially if the guys want it to remain personal.
    What alot of us want to see is Statistics if so required.
    If the goverment is going to engage us in conflicts across the globe then they better be fecking ready to let us know how we are really getting on!

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