Arctic Medal Campaign - Portsmouth News

Discussion in 'History' started by jambosun, Nov 10, 2011.

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  1. I would hate the UK to end up like the US with medals for every single thing but it is beyond me why successive governments have not done what is right (In my humble opinion) in this case. Are there any real arguments against not granting these men the recognition they deserve?

    Prime Minister David Cameron has
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2011
  2. To play devil's advocate, surely a clasp to the Atlantic medal would suffice plus the veterans have been awarded medals by the Russian Government. A (now deceased) veteran at my Legion had 2 as the Russians gave ones out to commemorate the 40th and 60th Anniversaries of the start of the convoys.

    If the Arctic Convoy vets deserve a seperate medal, what about the Malta convoy vets?, where do you draw the line?

    edited to correct the anniversary times.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2011
  3. Is an Artic medal one that bends in the middle?

    On a serious note, however, I have mixed feelings. Yes, the Arctic convoys were horrifyingly dangerous and those who took part have my greatest admiration but the argument that the Atlantic convoys were fundamentally different to the Arctic convoys does not work for me - the objectives were exactly the same (to maintain the flow of materiel, food and essential supplies) and the award of the Atlantic Star (with its specific mention of the Arctic in its qualifying statement) reflects service in that theatre.

    I don't see it as a betrayal. I have dipped out on assorted bits of bling over my time because the rules were not in my favour. I don't intend to spend the rest of my life bleating about it and, without wishing to sound unsympathetic, neither should those who fought in various other theatres of war but have similarly not been rewarded with tin and ribbons

    Hard hat in hand I am now standing by for incoming.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. I think Wrecker is right many other campaigns deserve medals poor fcukers captured by the Japanese, they went through hell and back, however, one of the last ceremonial events I conducted was the last march of the Russian Convoy veterans through Plymouth I was so proud to be asked brave men and they have my sincere respect. Those white berets worn by those heroes put a tear in my eye as they did an eyes right on Royal Parade.
  5. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Again, given that the minimum age of the youngest person able to serve on the last Arctic Convoy would now be 84, most probably don't begrudge an extra medal to the minimum trio already held by a WWII Naval veteran of 1939-45 War Medal, 1939-45 War Star, Atlantic Star, & possibly the 1939-45 Defence Medal together with the (unofficial) Russian Convoy Medal (40th Anniversary version) offered by Russia in 1985, Russian Victory Medal offered by Russia in 1994 and the 60th Anniversary medal offered by Russia, last year.
  6. tam


    I am in full agreement with broadside's opinion on this one.
  7. The News

    <<Ministry of Defence officials have told The News not to expect an announcement on its outcome before the end of the year....A Downing Street spokesman attempted to play down Mr Cameron’s apparent U-turn on the veterans yesterday.

    He said: ‘The Prime Minister has been clear that all WWII vets deserve the recognition they rightly deserve, this is not new. In the letter, the PM was recognising, as a matter of fact, what had already been awarded. The Prime Minister is very clear on not pre-judging the review’s outcome.’>>

    1. The News didn't publish the whole of this 'PM Letter'.

    2. Outrage bus is well overloaded but the MOD is still to announce their recommendations.

    3. Finks hasn't even flashed up yet; so relax & stand down for now.
  8. Medals is medals but memories and experiences can't be displayed on ones chest - you veterans have my respect, IT means more than shiney cheap tin.
    Be on parade thiis Sunday don't do do the church shit but will swill a few bevvies in respect.
    Grandad Sayers Ypres 1916 RIP
    Les Sayers AB HSD 1940 -45 RIP
  9. Morning Posters - I hope u all have read the leading article in the Daily Mail tocday. I have joined the thread because I WAS THERE and I feel if you were NOT there u should please shut up!!!!!!!! I am an 86 year old Royal Marine veteran who served on HMS Jamacia. My biggest beef this morning is with the Veterans UK Agency as I have before me a handout. via the Internet, entitled "The Russian Convoy Medal" and in it they have the bloody cheek of calling the Russian Federation 40th Veterans Anniversary Medal, the Russian Convooy Medal - once again some Civil Servant who wasn't there getting it all wrong again.

    The Russian Federaion honour us vets because they still remember and say these Convoys were their life line and they would have gone under without the Convoys .. I attended the Service of Remembrance here in Cyprus yesterday and proudly worn the 40th, 50th and 60th Russian Federation Anniversary Medals and was congratulated - of course I had their 65th End of War Medal in my pocket.Enough said for now - support the Campaign.
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2011
  10. Seaweed

    Seaweed War Hero Book Reviewer

    Eddie Grenfell was on the box yesterday giving a very moving account of being sunk and having to swim for it in the Arctic. He was VERY lucky to survive.

    I have read elsewhere that some people were on this Arctic convoy or that who did not qualify by time for the Atlantic Star.

    I have never understood why there was not a Mediterranean Star for such as served on Malta Convoys, Crete and Greece evacuations, submarine ops from Malta, Matapan, Sirte, etc. Was sea service in the Med reckoned to the Atlantic Star?

    I'm still in two minds though about changing what was decided in, I suppose, 1945. Presumably if awarded NoK would be able to claim for those who are no longer with us. Establishing a claim for those who served in HM Ships would be fairly straightforward if Service Certificates have been retained & not lost, as the ships' logs should be in the National Archives, but for merchant seamen the paper trail will probably be long gone even if their Continuous Duscharge Book is still around.
  11. The Russian Convoys were more hazardous than convoy duty in other sea areas, if you don't understand why then do some studying.
    The majority of men that served on the Russian Convoys were in fact already eligible for the Atlantic Star before going on Russian Convoys.
    Isn't it strange that another country should give those veterans a medal but our own MOD refuse one.
    Support the lads in white berries, sign the petition, let them have the recognition they so deserve before it is too late.
  12. I try to take every opportunity available to NOT read the Daily Mail.

    Bristolian, I sympathise with you regarding your struggle for what you believe is recognition not given and I greatly respect you and anyone who was involved in the Arctic Convoys, as I also do for those who were on the Mediterranean Convoys, served in submarines, took part in the Norwegian Campaign, fought for Crete, were involved in the D-Day landings, the Anzio landings and every other theatre of war for which a specific medal was not awarded (or endured horrendous treatment or suffering above and beyond such as Japanese POWs)

    However, despite the fact that I was NOT there, the sacrifices made by those who were (including your good self, my father, my father in law and others involved in all the campaigns mentioned above plus those for which general service medals were awarded) were intended to ensure that if I do have a point of view (even if it doesn't match yours) I am free to express it so I will NOT shut up!!!!

    I wish you luck with your campaign.
  13. Thank u all Posters for your replies. Can I first of al say although I am an ex-serviceman, I include all the Merchant Navy crews who sailed in the Convoys in my comments.

    Yes, I know Cmdr Eddie at one time he was the Chairman of the Russian Convoy Club and Editor of the Club's Newsletter, I finally met up with him when us,vets went to Wilhemlshaven for the Final Rerunion of the Scharnhorts Surviors Club in October 2003.

    Yes, as a Posters has said there are other Campaigns without recognition, but we have fought hard to be recognised, as already has been said by the great man, whom I have met, Sir Winston Churchill, that the Arctic Convoys were very dangerous. In today's article I see that to get the Africa Star u only needed to serve one day in the area, we had years in the Arctic.

    As a PS for Seaweed just be careful what u say ie "Nelson said - "You should hate a Frenchman as u do the devil" I wa born in France at 10 am on 9th January, 1925, with a name of "Jean" but always called "John" Ha Ha!!!!!!
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2011
  14. Seaweed

    Seaweed War Hero Book Reviewer

    In a sense the Russian medal was to make up for the fairly foul way our people were treated when they finally arrived in the vodka-fuelled madhouse that was Communist Russia, a mixture of paranoia, ill-will, ingratitude, want of understanding and the usual Russian incompetence.
  15. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Have to say I'm surprised there isn't a campaign for a Battle of the Atlantic Medal as well as the Arctic Convoy.

  16. When I did my NILE course in the early 60's it was a weeks course then and we had to read a lot of reports of ships sinkings to gauge the need for fast deployment of the rafts.I remember vividly the reports of the Artic conveys and how long the poor men lasted in the sea,a couple of minutes was along time.
    I think we miss the point somewhat,it's not the fact they may have been covered by another medal[although I think the Med convoys were a bit different in the survival mode] it's the fact:: What would it cost us?nothing much!!and it's the right thing to do for a bunch of brave sailors.
    Take the few thousand out of the civil Service bonus awards that will pay for them.
    I say again it would cost nothing and it's the right thing to do, Cameron is a two faced twat and not just over this.
  17. Do you know what Seafarer I might just fcuking agree with you there.
    Give all the old boys what they deserve Med, POW, Artic, my old man had to seel his in the 60s to feed me and my younger brother what a fcuking tragedy. Cameron has the type of face I wouldn't get tired of kicking - but Milliband and Clegg would be first in the Q.
  18. Not so much as the MOD, or even Cameron and the Government (as claimed in the Wail) - more the Honours and Awards Cttee (or whatever handle they have now) deciding to advise HMQ about the so-called double medalling IMHO.
    Look at all the fuss over the PJM, which was not accepted by the Awards Cttee, but which had been authorised by her Maj back in the 60s - but still not agreed with by the bods of the Awards. Mind you, a certain retired Multi ringer did get a medal for Antigua 25 years after the event !! I believe 'self serving' is their mantra.

    With all the billions that this, and previous, governments have wasted on 'aid' to China, India, Pakistan and other countries, a paltry sum for a medal for these few surviving matelots would not go amiss.

    Shouldn't this forum be titled as Arctic Medal, and not Artic (Articulated) ....... just a thought ?? ;)
  19. Seaweed - Very strong comment - is it realy fit for today's situation.

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