Anyone had their B13 for P.O. in the WARSEARES branch?

Discussion in 'Royal Naval Reserve (RNR)' started by hookyh, Aug 13, 2009.

Welcome to the Navy Net aka Rum Ration

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial RN website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. I know a couple of guys have had theirs for Leading Hand and wondered if anyone had been given the nod for P.O. as yet?

    Any takers on this one..................................?
  2. As far as I am aware "stand fast to be corrected" only one person from WarSea/AWFP got the nod.....5 in total across the whole RNR.

    Branch is clearly overborne with senior rates no rocket scientist required there.. "some of which have turned out to be be undeployable or not up to scratch" not particular or exclusive to SR's I may add before the SR Mess goes into uproar!!...meanwhile however the young..keen and qualified who have done their bit and proved their ability to do the job get looked over again and again...same problem as AB to LH that you brought up in another post hooky.....madness is not dependant on rank it is an endemic feature of the whole RNR at the moment!!

    I know that the powers to be are looking at a deadwood chopping exercise and for that we must be thankful as its well overdue...but will there be anyone of value left by the time the spaces appear as people who are doing there bit and in many cases above and beyond what they are asked of, are being ignored and will ultimately vote with their feet!!!
  3. From what I'm told, it's exactly as WarMonger has stated.

    Although I was informed that there are billets for LH in SEA that are gapped and there was an "over-sight" on the LH signal in that they were to make up XX amount of people and only made up YY (figures I can't remember, XX being the greater number).

    The word is (maybe this should in Buzz Buster) that they are going to mobilise those they want rid off and if they don't leave OR mobilise then they're outside.

    As I said it’s what I've been told so not sure on the validity of it. Maybe SO2Seaman (or is it SO1Seaman) to confirm?
  4. My guess is there's going to be an exodus of good people before too long then. Personally I'm now into double figure years as a leading hand now and totally pissed off about it too. Having done all my courses (in two branches) for PO, mobilised on a couple of occasions, (including doing a senior rates job on three occasions), done an FTRS and worked above my level within my unit I'm totally and utterly ready to look elsewhere (RAF Regiment looking good right now!).
    I'm not pointing the finger at anyone in particular, but am totally disgusted with the powers that be within the RNR that high quality people are being overlooked year in and year out.
    I personally don't believe the word from above that they're going to get rid of the deadwood. My reasons for this are twofold: Firstly we need more people and are losing faster than recruiting based on last years figures and secondly that this was mooted over a year ago now and to my knowledge no-one has gone! If they have then why has no-one been promoted? Oddly enough I know of three people in my unit alone who were senior rates and on the books of AWFP/Seaman branch that have retired or left, so why have seniors not been promoted into those positions???

  5. In all honesty I don't have much faith in the top brass dealing with this issue at all.

    I have a direct question for them though if anyone would care to give us a direct answer on here - DO YOU REALLY WANT TO START LOSING THE GOOD PEOPLE AND JUST BE LEFT WITH THE CRAP? If not then what are you going to (genuinely) do about it and when, because so far there's been no action whatsoever!

    I'm personally not going to wait to be promoted for much longer. If I'm not of value to the organisation then tell me so, right now and I can make my dispositions accordingly. If I am worthy then give me (and all those who deserve it) due recognition, because currently you're happy to use and abuse the willing when it suits with deployments and above and beyond duties, but give no recognition of us whatsoever!
  6. Is anyone from above able to officially confirm that just the one person has been promoted to PO within the Seaman branch?
  7. Like you HH I am very much in a similar position in all respects...I haven't been convinced to do an FTRS stint ...YET!! so fair play for that!!

    Unfortunately no, have not seen the signal myself but have it from a very very reliable source and the rumours around the bazaars seems to confirm...I would be 99% sure that its just the one....."standby to be corrected"

    I can only comment as I find but I do know that there are people in the hierarchy of Sea Res that are genuinely peaved and annoyed about the situation as well and are desperate to rectify it, but thats no consellation after a hard years work and the preverbial kick in the bollocks!
  8. Thanks for that Warmonger! It's some consolation to know a) As I suspected I'm far from alone and b) that the folks above genuinely are feeling it, even if nothing much is happening at least they are bothered!

    I often use RR to have a drip (and it does make me feel better sometimes I confess - Lol!) so do like to pass out bouquets as well as the brickbats, so fair play to the headshed within the branch in that case!
  9. FFS "deadwood cutting", this old chestnut - all that will happen is that the good people will see the cuts inbound and leave; whereas the deadwood will remain out of lethargy.

    The current lack of direction might well lead to a lot of good people leaving, as will the age demographics of the seaman branch.
  10. It's rather up to COs to do it, the mechanisms are there and they have been used recently. Contracts need not be renewed at the review point and automagically the deadwood should be culled.

    I would observe that it takes a degree of moral courage to do so, I would not wish to comment on the availability of that amongst RNR COs.
  11. It's okay saying cull them at the point of re-engagement but if they've recently re-engaged then you could be looking at as much as a 5 year wait to get rid of someone. If you've shown through you records that you're not offering real value, not prepared to step forward to be mobilised etc and there are plenty of people like that, then you should be out irrespective of 1,2,3 etc years left on your engagement.

    The process of culling has to be more pro-active. In order to get a tree to grow back stronger sometimes you need to cut it right back. I think we have reached that point in the RNR and its desperately needed. I also think that the problem affects all ranks and whilst the log jam in the LH to SR area seems to be causing a lot of grief at the moment there are plenty of people of all ranks that should be being looked at by the RNR and to whether we are getting our money's worth out of them.

    I do have concern that the bean counters wouldn't see it that way and that the impact in a drop in numbers due to this may affect our future and the viability of the reserves.
  12. If they've recently re-engaged in these circumstances, then one should be challenging the CO about effectiveness.
  13. As stated Karma what CO is going to have the balls to start getting rid of people on this basis when the emphasis from CMR is recrutiment, retention, recrutiment, retention..At what would appear to be at all costs!!.....Is this right???
  14. One that understands what CMRs intent is, rather than taking an overly simplistic view of the direction.

    Personally I'd hand over everyone over to specialisation SO1s and let them manage their pool of manpower, that would help us get rid of those who never support their specialisations.
  15. This is (as I suspected) a bit of a no-win situation. We need to recruit more people and fairly quickly, but also lose some deadwood. It's a difficult call for the CO's, although the moral courage thing perhaps does come into it as well. I fully acknowledge it's a difficult one.

    One thing I don't understand is that I've seen my unit lose three senior rates this year who were at least nominally on the Seaman branch roll, but as has been said earlier it would appear that only one PO has been made-up this time around nationally. Surely if people have gone then they should be replaced by others. I didn't expect them to replaced within my own unit as I fully acknowledge promotion isn't a local, but a national thing. That being said if we've lost (let's say for argument) three PO's for whatever reasons within the branch, then three PO's is what we should see promoted. At least we could remove a large slice of the deeply felt frustration (and dare I say a little anger) if the issues were being seen to be dealt with in some form or another.

    I can honestly say, hand on heart that if things aren't resolved within the next twelve months, then sadly I'll be looking elsewhere other than the RNR for my future. I'm certain I won't be missed in the slightest, but when it comes to mobilising the willing in future, there'll be at least one more spot to be filled by the unwilling or the totally inept.

    We get a lot of visit's from the top brass these days. Perhaps instead of simply paying us lip service they could give us solid policies to improve the whole system. It's not difficult or wrong to reward those willing, able and loyal and ignore the incapable, unwilling or obstructive. It would also show the right example and leadership by showing that hard work and taking the right path has it's rewards and shows the individuals who give little or nothing that there's nothing in it for them by simply treading water or turning up for IAKO, as I've no doubt has happened this year as usual.

    I've no doubt that venting my spleen has no effect whatsoever on the ivory towers, but they should be warned that I am aware that many feel as I do. They may not leave but will be a silent and less motivated bunch of people in the future. After all, who is going to bother doing their courses, putting their hands up for mobilisation and doing the unsung jobs that keep the machine oiled if there's no chance of any reward in the long run.

    I've been so very proud to have served, but my pride is on the wane, and I wonder if the organisation is worthy of that pride any more.

    Someone give me a reason to believe....................Please!

    Someone please tell me if I'm not making sense here!
  16. Ladies and Gentlemen,
    as this is not an official site, there is only so much I can say in reply to some exceptionally valid questions/issues.
    1. Top-Heavy Branch - sadly the Sea(Res) branch is over-bourne for SRs, (and even when 3 leave from 1 unit, we are still over the top.
    Solution - Despite what has been written, I am the authority to recommend extensions of service for members of the branch. I have refused, and will continue to refuse, extensions for people who are not qualified to deploy, or have made no effort to qualify. This had made me unpopular with some, and will probably ensure that my name will never appear on a promotion signal!
    2. Recognition of service - This is not a hollow comment, it is written with meaning, and I hope those who have met me or spoken with me, will agree - I continue to be genuinely impressed with the quality of our young and thrusting ABs and Killicks and am devestated that I can not do anything quicker to cut out the deadwood - but please remember the RNR has been round over 100 years, I've only been the branch OC for 423 days!
    Solution - hang in there, and trust me. If I can't ensure things improve soon, I will fall on my sword and resign.
    3.Comments about the top-brass not listening - I have regular discussions with the great and good, and believe me, they do know the score, and are trying to fix it.
    Solution - when a Snr Officer visits, explain the issue (without a finger in the chest) and even offer to follow your comments up with an email.

    4. State of the branch - we are in a far better position than we were 2 years ago, and we will be better still in a year's time. I'm on your side and will fix it!

    Kind Regards
  17. I assume that this only applies to those who are requesting an extension of service rather than a request to re-engage. What happens to anybody who is requesting re-engagement rather than extension? As has been said previously, once you have re-engaged, you are not subject to a retention review for 5 years. Has there been any consideration given to moving the "dead wood" to List 6 in the same way as is happening to officers?

  18. Valid point Aldis,
    However the message is getting through that we are a different service to 5 years ago, and increasing pressure is being put on individuals to get on the trained strength. I prepared a report on all Sea(Res) ratings that went to every CO which highlighted how many ratings of each rate were not on the trained strength.
    Eating an elephent is a huge task, but can be done, 1 mouthful at a time!

  19. I'd need to go back to the good book but isn't the authority with the CO taking recommendations from heads of branch?

    I can think of a couple of instances of friction between specialisation and units about HR decisions in my own spec where the unit CO made decisions and recommendations completely counter to the specialisations view. To do otherwise would have involved disappointing the individuals in question.

    I've also dealt with one issue recently where a lack of moral courage at unit level is leading to a significant management issue in specialisation. Very much a question of inflated expectations that should never have been allowed to get this far.

Share This Page