Discussion in 'Joining Up - Royal Navy Recruiting' started by Astraeus, May 31, 2014.

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  1. Folks

    I am ready to apply for the TM branch of the RN and, at my latest meeting with the AFCO I was enquiring specifically about the role of NETS officers who, it appears, are less confined to shore-based duties than typical TM officers. My hesitation about opting for TM over Logistics is because of the risk of being classroom-based as I would sooner be involved in the development of training schemes and occasional delivery as opposed to a direct, daily teaching role. My own research suggests NETS officers encounter more frequent short-term deployments however I hope someone on here will be able to offer a the sort of frank, warts n' all assessment of the role for which I am grateful to this forum's members. It has been invaluable thus far.

    I would be very grateful if anyone could point me in the direction of a forum member who may be able to assist.

    Many thanks in advance.
  2. Thanks. I had read that post prior to starting my own thread however my question was more specifically aimed at the group of TM officers who, according to the AFCO, tend to have short deployments on ships as opposed to doing much classroom teaching. Both AFCO Lieutenants I have spoken with made out that it was a sub-branch of TMs.

    I found Trainer's post incredibly helpful except for a slightly confused position regarding promotion prospects I think borne out of frustration or cynicism. I am unclear whether it is a branch which lends itself to promotion prospects or indeed, as originally posited, whether the NETS officers tend to find themselves enjoying much sea time.
  3. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    Astreus, being a NETSO is at best a 24-30 month appointment in an entire career. Its not a separate streaming.

    To put the two branches into context in terms of sea time and variety, a loggie will do a deputy and charge (hopefully) appointment at sea and could also get loggie appointments with battlestaffs and PJHQ that will see deployments. Post SO1 there are further charge opportunities.

    TM sea/deployment opportunities are slightly more limited. NETSO role offer the most obvious seatime route but a TM could work with the Royal Marines, after passing AAC, in a variety of roles but the numbers needed are small. There are a few oddball TM posts in battlestaffs and at FOST (may not still be there) but the reality is that most roles are in the UK training organisations.
  4. Thanks wave_dodger. That's a really useful insight and contrasts with what I took away from AFCO. It seemed to have been suggested that senior TMs would likely find themselves on more semi-permanent deployments aboard larger ships or on a carrier. I presume the attractively painted outlook of the TM branch, coupled with the salary bonus, reflects a staff shortage in the branch.

    My concern is that, stepping out of a role as a practicing solicitor, I end up being shoehorned back into a shore-based, bland office role. It isn't for that reason that I am considering the switch.

    The logistics role seemed initially much more suited to me and, on reflection and guided by helpful input above and elsewhere, I think that may still be the case.

    Opportunities for promotion is probably my biggest consideration as I am worried at the prospect of hitting a ceiling at Lieutenant or thereabouts simply because the role doesn't call for more seniority. To me that appears more of a risk in the schoolie than pusser branch.

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  5. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    I'd be surprised if the average TMO had as many as two sea-going appointments in their entire career.
  6. Again, helpful thank you. This is precisely why I ventured onto the forum to cross-check what I was being told as the representation at AFCO suggested sea-going appointments were regular, if not frequent.

    I'll scour the site for a similarly-helpful thread about LOs to see how that stacks up against TMs.

    Brilliant input folks, thanks.
  7. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    As a Logistics Officer, you'll probably get two or three, seagoing appointments in the first ten years, if you serve that long, the average person doesn't. Difference is, you don't get a £27k joining bounty as a Logs Officer.
  8. As a Logs it starts at sub-£20k for training and then up to £30k at Lieutenant from what I gathered at AFCO - is that incorrect?

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  9. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Starting pay for all (non medical/dental) Officers is £25,220 (gross per annum).

    One thing that does amuse me is a senior officer from AIB visited my AFCO recently & completely poo-poo-ed the idea of a forum for potential joiners. Why? "Because they get duff info" he said.

    Strikes me that whoever you spoke to in your local AFCO didn't have a Scooby either.;-)

    Please tell me it was an ACLO and not a Careers Adviser.
  10. Ninja, you don't fancy a role at AFCO I suppose? It would be nice to come away with accurate information before deciding whether to switch from a prosperous career!

    I'm now more reliant upon you, at least until the new adviser starts in a fortnight, so can you clarify that the difference in starting pay between LO and TMO is circa £2K?

    And don't worry, I realise I am straying into the realm of 'use the search function' so please feel free to direct me accordingly!

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  11. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer


    I was initially an Instructor which is the branch the TMs came from - there was always the need for a little 'sell' as it was never as glamorous as other branches (flawed perception perhaps as I had and still have fun) - but now the initial advanced promotion has gone, it really is a case of be very careful what you choose and why.

    Promotion in most branches isn't limited by sea service (ok, for X it is), this year we promoted a record number of TMs to SO1 (6) due to a large number of factors. So don't judge the branch in that manner.

    It really depends on what it is you wish to do with your career. if I were you I'd be looking to ask for a chance to speak to junior/mid seniority Officers in both branches.

    As for the TM requirement I wasn't aware they were running a salary enhancement still I thought that had been reduced? I'm not aware of a shortage either but traditionally it's been slightly harder to recruit.
  12. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    And your average pusher may get two, possibly three. They have to seek out additional postings which are normally hotly competed.

    But the reality is I'd say your average TM will struggle to get one sea appointment.
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  13. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    There is currently a dire shortage of TMOs, hence the acceptance of any degree & a golden hello.

    edit: double post.
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2014
  14. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    Didn't realise that and I do chat to TM mates often? That must have changed quite recently as a while ago we were overborne. I left the I/TM world a long time ago - E(IS) now WE(plastic).

    I can see why its hard to recruit them mind.
  15. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Oh, and AIB have lowered the pass mark by more than 10% & have twice had to lower the recruiting test score for Officer to the extent an AIB fail for Engineering Offiicer or RM Officer may well result in a candidate having to re-sit the test to score high enough for rating/other rank entry. But they've got A Levels & a degree, right?

    Crisis, what crisis?
  16. Interesting observations NS, thanks. It tallies with what I read elsewhere about a fair portion of TMOs being 'failed' (and I don't mean that offensively) officers from other branches.

    WD, why do you feel it is so hard to recruit for the branch given your own positive experiences?

    I am still unclear on the financial implications of one against the other. Starting salaries for both are then £25K but there is a £2K golden hello for TMOs?

    I have already done as you suggested WD and obtained contacts at a junior level of both branches with whom I will confer upon my return from France in mid-June. I just hope to have cleared the more elementary line of questioning before meeting them. Seems to be a lack of clarity all round regarding the TM branch.

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  17. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    There is no difference in starting pay, but I can understand the confusion as the "new" RN website is flawed, to the extent I've stopped flagging-up errors as they can't be arsed acknowledging after correcting their mistakes.

    This page correctly tells you, you start on £25,220 as an Officer Pay details | Pay benefits and learning | Royal Navy.

    But this one indicates last years rates: Pay details | Pay benefits and learning | Royal Navy

    I wouldn't view TMOs as "fails" the revised AIB & RT scores apply to all officers.
  18. Trainer

    Trainer War Hero Book Reviewer

    PM me and I'll arrange an acquaint. I'm pretty close to the coalface and I did nearly 15 years in the area myself... You'll be the 4th potential TM I'm currently jacking one up for. The more the merrier.

    If you want seatime, go X. If you want to go home to your wife and kids at night, and to be the intellectual glue that holds the RN together go TM... blah blah, yadda yadda. If you want to leap up the ranks go Engineer. As a solicitor you might fancy Logs and ending up with your pupillage paid for, and a sure fire path to Fleet Legal and higher rank as a Barrister.

    The best advise I can give a potential Schoolie, is get AS/A level Maths/Further Maths if you don't have them. Cos you will be probably teaching technical skills to baby technicians in a stone frigate to start with. Any degree path noted, but technical is good. It used to be good fun watching International Relations graduates attempt the finer points of Differential Calculus. But then again, if you cant manage a class from one page ahead in the ISpec, E(IS) may be taking on....

    By the way, before the revisions happened, the two highest scores ever at the AIB were by ETMs.....

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  19. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Very kind, but I imagine you meant to quote & invite the OP (Astraeus).;-)

    Heartily agree with your comments - I've not met a duff TMO/Schoolie in thirty-odd years & an acquaint visit is very much recommended, particularly if not sure which career path to follow. To Astraeus - speak to the subject matter experts. It's one of those relatively small, specialist branches that unless you have first hand experience, you can only offer generic advice.

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