Another nutty diatribe from Lewis Page

instinct

Lantern Swinger
In_my_day said:
On the subject of using container ships, noise, etc. I seem to recall that Lusty and co were originally commercial hulls (or perhaps constructed on civvy not RN lines) fitted with big rubber blocks for the engines, etc?

IMD
Ocean was an invincible hull form built to commertial standards to be cheaper. May that be what you are thinking of?
 
instinct said:
Oil_Slick said:
seenoffteefcuk said:
I dont understand the despite the governments best efforts bit.

Ignored best advice to go for Mk41 VLS and a 5" gun, wouldn't fund all the shiny bits that would have made T45 an outstanding warship and then incrementally slashed the order from 14 to 12, to 8 to 6 so we saw none of the efficiencies and improvements during build that could and should have come to bear on the class and driven the unit cost down to sensible. Thanks to the Governments best efforts we have a class of 6 with a limited capability for not much less than we could have had a dozen.
Why 5 inch gun? Dont you mean the 155mm upgrade that is on the cards and that the T45 gun mounting was strengthened for it?

As for MK41 im not sure that it would have been better or worse and cutting numbers i agree with you 100%.
Oddly enough, 155mm is 5 inches...
 

seenoffteefcuk

War Hero
Oil_Slick said:
seenoffteefcuk said:
I dont understand the despite the governments best efforts bit.

Ignored best advice to go for Mk41 VLS and a 5" gun, wouldn't fund all the shiny bits that would have made T45 an outstanding warship and then incrementally slashed the order from 14 to 12, to 8 to 6 so we saw none of the efficiencies and improvements during build that could and should have come to bear on the class and driven the unit cost down to sensible. Thanks to the Governments best efforts we have a class of 6 with a limited capability for not much less than we could have had a dozen.
Thanks (i wasn't taking pish by the way)
and i didn't realise it was supposed to be 14 which as you say would of greatly reduced unit cost.
But Big And Expensive will continue to wag the government due to the fact they have the monopoly in shipbuilding/arms in this country.
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
kinross_special said:
instinct said:
Oil_Slick said:
seenoffteefcuk said:
I dont understand the despite the governments best efforts bit.

Ignored best advice to go for Mk41 VLS and a 5" gun, wouldn't fund all the shiny bits that would have made T45 an outstanding warship and then incrementally slashed the order from 14 to 12, to 8 to 6 so we saw none of the efficiencies and improvements during build that could and should have come to bear on the class and driven the unit cost down to sensible. Thanks to the Governments best efforts we have a class of 6 with a limited capability for not much less than we could have had a dozen.
Why 5 inch gun? Dont you mean the 155mm upgrade that is on the cards and that the T45 gun mounting was strengthened for it?

As for MK41 im not sure that it would have been better or worse and cutting numbers i agree with you 100%.
Oddly enough, 155mm is 5 inches...

Actually it's 6 and a bit inches
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
instinct said:
As for MK41 im not sure that it would have been better or worse
Mk41 was cheaper than SYLVER and can take anything up to and including a TLAM and SM3… The version of SYLVER we bought, the short version unlike les Phroggs, can only take small missiles like ASTER. If we decide at some point in the future to buy SCALP-N or TLAM for the T45's to give the a land attack capability, we'll have to buy new longer VLS silos.
 
Page has attracted plenty of comments, including one with an invite to expound his views at RR!!

From http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/2/2010/03/30/frigates_wag_the_dog/

QUOTE
Yeoman,Bridge
Why here? #
Posted Tuesday 30th March 2010 15:02 GMT

Mr Page, instead of pumping out your out of date, ill informed and mostly laughable opinions on what is a civilian website why not try a RN based website?

Civilians who (no disrespect to you good people out there but unless you are in the business or have been in the business) have very little idea of what you are on about may believe your fairy stories about Q ships and armed merchantmen (yes folks it has been done before, normally with disastrous results)


Can I recommend RumRation? I am sure that you would receive a very, very warm welcome to your views and some heated discussion over your opinions on how their lord-ships should wage war.


I do follow your articles with interest, in much the same way that I used to follow many junior officers.
It is still interesting to see what holes they can dig themselves into.


PS you only have MCMV in your set of Top Trumps and gave up.
I managed the full surface set . ;-)

UNQUOTE


BZ 'Yeoman, Bridge'; but a snowball's chance I'm afraid. There will be no money for any time he spends here.
 
Oil_Slick said:
kinross_special said:
instinct said:
Oil_Slick said:
seenoffteefcuk said:
I dont understand the despite the governments best efforts bit.

Ignored best advice to go for Mk41 VLS and a 5" gun, wouldn't fund all the shiny bits that would have made T45 an outstanding warship and then incrementally slashed the order from 14 to 12, to 8 to 6 so we saw none of the efficiencies and improvements during build that could and should have come to bear on the class and driven the unit cost down to sensible. Thanks to the Governments best efforts we have a class of 6 with a limited capability for not much less than we could have had a dozen.
Why 5 inch gun? Dont you mean the 155mm upgrade that is on the cards and that the T45 gun mounting was strengthened for it?

As for MK41 im not sure that it would have been better or worse and cutting numbers i agree with you 100%.
Oddly enough, 155mm is 5 inches...

Actually it's 6 and a bit inches
Fair one, I was a dabber, not a gunner....
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
I'm aware that Hastings was is /was a fan. Given Max Hastings gets much wrong in his own military writings (books and press) I'd say that Sir Max and Lieutenant Page deserve each other.
 
soleil said:
Have you seen Sir Max Hastings' observation at the top of the first page of Lewis' blogsite?

Heaven forbid ...............

http://lewispage.blogspot.com/
That'll be the same blinkered pro-Army but rabidly anti-RN Max Hastings who sees no reason for having aircraft carriers or capable escorts and recently described the RN as cowardly (link) because he lacks any grasp of the constraints imposed on the conduct of maritime constabulary duties. This is the same Max Hastings who liberated Port Stanley single-handed but has since forgotten the debt he owes to the RN ships sunk, the FAA aircraft shot down and the sailors who died while delivering him so that he could file his 'exclusive'. He and Lewis Page certainly deserve each other.
 

Guns

War Hero
Moderator
Max Hastings. Read "Don't Cry for me Sergeant Major" on the Falklands War from the reporters view and get the real story of Sir Max and his heroic bravery in making sure other reporters copy got delvi..... oh no thats right. Reading the book I got the impression if some of the reporters had got a weapon he could have been shot by his own side.

Lewis Page. Qualified to dive and blow stuff up. Some how this makes him qualified to tell everyone how crap the RN is and if we follow his advice all will be well. I don't think so.
 
NG, As L. Page was one of your ilk once, surely you might be able to enlighten us all with some 'Line Book' entries or similar on him?

(Not as though his credibilty needs much further downsizing, you understand :wink: )
 
BreathingOutOnTheWayUp said:
NG, As L. Page was one of your ilk once, surely you might be able to enlighten us all with some 'Line Book' entries or similar on him?

(Not as though his credibilty needs much further downsizing, you understand :wink: )
I do wish Lewis Page would stop harping on about having been a member of my Branch. He was only in it for a dogwatch and, to the best of my knowledge, I have never met or communicated with him. In the unlikely event of me being prepared to dish any dirt on him, I couldn't because his name hasn't even come up in conversation.
 
Just a few words especially about the use of mercantile hulls .

In ww2 one of the finest uses of mercantile build was the Escort Carrier
a flat top installed on a selected hull and also fitted with a hangar and lifts.

With todays array of weaponry and sub hunting capabilities it would possibly form a cheap and effective way of combatting submarines and also provide long range air defence or early warning for surface units .

Don't really agree with Lewis Page but as mentioned he does have a couple of viable points.

I await incoming :D
G
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
Greenie said:
Just a few words especially about the use of mercantile hulls .

In ww2 one of the finest uses of mercantile build was the Escort Carrier
a flat top installed on a selected hull and also fitted with a hangar and lifts.


With todays array of weaponry and sub hunting capabilities it would possibly form a cheap and effective way of combatting submarines and also provide long range air defence or early warning for surface units .

Don't really agree with Lewis Page but as mentioned he does have a couple of viable points.

I await incoming :D
G

You mean something like this? :wink:

 

soleil

War Hero
Lewis' Career:

Armed Forces Career:

University Air Squadron, RAF 1988-91

Royal Navy officer 1993-2004

•Navigator, HMS Quorn 1994-96
•Long Mine Clearance Diving Officer course 1996-97
•Ops Officer, HMS Middleton 1997-98
•All-arms Commando course 1997
•Executive Officer, HMS Bridport 1998-01
•Officer in Charge, Southern Diving Unit One 2001-04
•Joint Improvised Explosive Device Disposal No. 1 Operator course 2001
 
Thanks for the pic's chaps ----the usual Big and Expensive creations
An excuse for a fleet carrier
Escort carriers were basic aircraft carriers -- fighting ships and not expensive to build or outfit . They did have a catapult fitted on some of them aswell. Safety in numbers as they say.
Cheap and cheerful mass produced after the war they were rebuilt as general cargo carriers .


The war builds were invented by the brits and included
MAC ships ---Merchant Aircraft Carriers
Tankers or Grain ships with flat top and they also carried a mercantile cargo aswell.

G
 
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