Another Bad Hair Week for Plod

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Nutty, Feb 2, 2008.

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  1. Contributor Mode

    It really is a bad hair day for Plod today in the Telegraph three stories of English Police not getting it right. Being a cnut, failing to properly investigate a allegation of theft, why arrest a OAP for the alleged offence of theft when you can easily confirm his name and address and either summons him(What did happen to summons's not in the target figures) or go round and arrest him once the evidence is confirmed. No we will take the word of a story detective, handcuff him and drag him down the nick.

    Maybe this is why the Police have lost the support of Middle England IMHO.


    Speeding

    Handcuffed OAP


    Lost and Dead


    NUtty
     
  2. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Where the feck is "Middle England"? I've alwas wanted to go there... isn't that where Bilbo Baggins lives?! 8O

    For every 'story' that shows the Police's perceived ineptitude there are hundreds of them doing their job well - often over and above the required level of profesionalism. But do the members of Middle England want to hear about that? E.g.:

    http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=87619

    Or do they just want to sit in their armchairs and spout kneejerk pseudo-politics, while they watch episodes of "Heartbeat" and "Dixon of Dock Green" through their red, white and blue tinted glasses?! :?
     
  3. Not only middle England Nutty, middle Scotland as well.

    I was set up a few yers ago, accused of going through some temp road works lights. I didn't. The two cnts were in a side road, one was asleep the other said they both saw me, as thy need corroborating evidence in Scotland. Result my word against theirs, 3 points and £40 fine. Secondary result complete alienation of someone who should be their natural supporter.
     
  4. Perhaps you are a little biased SgtP
     
  5. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Slim: Perhaps. But then, so might you be! :wink:

    Opinions are like ********* - everyone's got one! :thumright:
     


  6. First point

    Saw it in a film once, all full of fighting, killing, towns being trashed and leaders arguing over what to do next to stop it continuing.

    Hang on that does sound so familiar!

    Second point

    Well said, all the people giving a large about how the police cannot do the job should try themselves, or is that against their HR to actually do anything else but whinge about the police.

    Give them enough manpower and take away the PC/HR brigade and we can regain the streets.
     
  7. The police have been in the 'spotlight' recently for one reason or another. To me, it appears they're not doing themselves any favours in their quest to gain public support.
     
  8. Contributor Mode

    SPB

    You claim not to know where middle England is then say and I quote. "Or do they just want to sit in their armchairs and spout kneejerk pseudo-politics, while they watch episodes of "Heartbeat" and "Dixon of Dock Green" through their red, white and blue tinted glasses?! :?[/quote]"

    So you clearly do. This Middle England are also the readers of The Daily Toryagraph, the one newspaper which would be expected to support the Police. What ever you say we both know that Plod in UK is losing its grip and with it the support of mainly law abiding public without whom it cannot operate. It is moving from an organisation that Polices by Consent to that of one that Polices by Force and looks only for the soft and easy target, then over reactes when faced with simple problems.

    Maybe the law has changed but when I trained as a Constable I was taught that you only used the power of arrest if the suspect was likley to abscond and or you could not satisfactorily establish their name and address. Officers appear to arrest these days because it is the simplest thing to do.

    Nutty

    PS Please also note that the WPC Observer is also giving two fingers with two hands to the camera indicating an endeminc attitude on that particular relief.
     
  9. A bit defensive there are we not SPB. I admit that many Plod do a difficult and demanding job well, and for the number employed those that make the press for the wrong reason are few.

    But how many of plods misdemeanors do not make the press. heres a few to be going on with:

    1. Heavy traffic, Marked car sitting at a junction waiting to get out, Blues & 2's come on and the car is allowed to exit the junction, 200 yrds down the road cars turns off the main road onto a side road that leads to the police station (bit difficult to descrbes this, but the junction plod was trying to get out from is at the top of a hill that actually overlooks the police station, the side road that leads to the police station doubles back along the main road so the original junction is only about 30 yards away from the police station) Police car pulls up in the car park and out gets the drive with 2 carrier bags, with the local chippies logo on the side.

    2. An obvious attempted break in at a house, put down as criminal damage so the figures look better.

    3. Police cars using a pedestrianised street as a short cut to the supermarket.

    4. Plod and her partner obviously on duty (answering radio saying she was unavailable to a call) Shopping in tescos

    The 4 points above were witnessed by myself over the last couple of months
     
  10. Contributor mode

    youarehavingalaugh

    You said

    "Second point

    Well said, all the people giving a large about how the police cannot do the job should try themselves, or is that against their HR to actually do anything else but whinge about the police.

    Give them enough manpower and take away the PC/HR brigade and we can regain the streets." Unquote

    ======

    You seem to aim this comment at myself, my antecedence is Police Service (Constable) at, Heathrow Airport, West Drayton, Sutton, Belgravia, Wandsworth, SOI(4)NSY and Tooting in the 70's/80's and 90's so I have done the Job myself both as Uniform and CID.

    So what make you an expert witness?

    Nutty
     
  11. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Nutty: My reference to 'Middle England' was made with a hint of sarcasm; I am aware it primarily means a frame of mind or a reference to a socio-economic group, principally indicating the middle classes or lower-middle classes of non-urban England. The term is used to the presumed views of mainstream English people as opposed to minorities of all types (the rich or the poor, ethnic minorities, gays and lesbians, the politically active, the intelligentsia, etc.). In particular it is increasingly used to denote the more right-wing views of those who are not in such minorities; Daily Mail readers, for example, are often characterised as being from Middle England as are members of the Countryside Alliance, for example.

    As for powers of arrest, well you should know better than most: the arresting officer made the decision at the time, and acted according to the information he received by the complainant. It transpires that B&Q admitted their mistake subsequent to the incident. Is it not likely that they have made an error, rather than the Police, who were presumably called to the scene by the shop themselves (unless they were doing some 'on duty' shopping at the time...)? And as a respondant to another of your posts stated, arrest does not necessarily mean charge and convict.

    I don't know when you left the Police Force, but I am sure you are aware of the many powers' of arrest they have, predominantly PACE 1984 (Code G), Sections 24(4) and 24(5):

    Section 24(4):

    Any person may arrest without a warrant—
    (a)anyone who is in the act of committing an arrestable offence;
    (b)anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing such an offence.


    Section 24(5):

    Where an arrestable offence has been committed, any person may arrest without a warrant—
    (a)anyone who is guilty of the offence;
    (b)anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of it.


    Mikh: Defensive? Not necessarily; I just choose to not view every subject from a myopic point of view. 8O
     
  12. All these technicalties are getting boring, whatever happened to good cut and thrust on the substance?
     
  13. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Unfortunately technicalities are the law! Without them there would be a lot of naughty people running around causing trouble, and the good guys would not be allowed to do anything about it... 8O :wink:
     
  14. Just like there is now
     
  15. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    YAHAL: I could not find a suitable 'sarcasm' emoticon... :oops:
     
  16. I think we have crossed wires here.

    I am not being critical of you and can see that you actually were in the force when there were riots on the streets and fully understand the job involved.

    The points you make about having to meet tagets and procedures is the PC/HR brigade forcing such behavior in some , not all cases.

    As was seen in Middlesborough a few years ago, you can go back to policing and achive what is needed.

    However there is no excuse for not carrying out a proper investigation as you have pointed out.

    In your position you can critisise what has happened, it is when the PC/HR brigade moan that makes some things worse.

    As sgtpepperband has stated it is the technicalities that are used in current times that sometimes prevent what would be thought as sensible behaviour.


    On a lighter note as you were serving in the 70's and 80's, did you know Gene Hunt.
     
  17. Contributor Mode

    SPB

    It was myself that pointed out that arrest does not always mean charge and charge does not always mean a conviction or even a court appearance as it can be withdrawn by the CPS.

    The Powers of arrest changed little with PACE and I served both before and after PACE. My question is why the Power of Arrest is used so freely. So many people are arrested when the matter could easily be conducted by summons or arrest at a later date when the evidence has been obtained and confirmed. Fp's, photo's etc can always be obtained after conviction at the court or local Police Station.

    Also the may I suggest that section 24(4) applies to "anyone" i.e. a citizens arrest. Section 24(5) appears to apply to a person who has a power of arrest by An Act of Parliment Warrant, Constable, Customs and Excise Officer etc. Or is the Power of arrest now anyone at any time who reasonably suspects another has commistted an arrestable offence as you suggest from these quotes.

    Nutty
     
  18. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    You are correct; "anyone" refers to someone subject to PACE 1984 (Constables, investigators, Service Police, HMC&E, etc.).

    But going back to the point about use of handcuffs, once a person is arrested he is usually handcuffed during the conveyance. Usually applied to prevent the suspect from escaping or harming himself or others (Police/members of the public, etc.). Technically the application of handcuffs constitutes an assault, however Section 3 of the Criminal Law Act 1967 permits a person to [...] use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime, or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large.
     
  19. Clearly I am not doing it right. I never handcuff my clients. Perhaps I will from now on.
     
  20. I am being very bad Rosina, shall I confess & tell you where I am so you can come pronto?
     

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