Americans Prefer Not to Know

[rugger_bob]

As a Yank and a Navy Veteran, I must say I'm surprised we are despised so much by you folks. Yea, the 2nd amendment to our Constitution does guarantee our right to buy and possess firearms. Sorry it angers you so. (Not really) Yea, we make mistakes. Yea, our politicians are for the most part a bunch of nitwits. I'm sorry that upsets you. (Not really) Yea, a lot of us only care about what is happening here and no where else. I hate that fact appears to cause you indigestion. (Not really) I only joined Rum Ration 6 days ago but I have already come to the conclusion that Europe and Great Britain look on America that same way many Americans look at their local Fire Department. Just a bunch of lazy do nothings who don't care a wit about anything outside the fire station. A waste of the honest taxpayers money. Until you house is on fire. Then you are damn glad we are there. And next time you see flames and your lives & property are in danger, make two calls. One to us and the other to the EU in Brussels. See who shows up first. So bash away my friends! We can take it.

Good. Take some more; it is your double-standards that amaze me. Prior to 9/11 the biggest death toll in a terrorist attack in the Americas was the bombing of Air Cubana Flight 455 in 1976. Seventy three people dead. Most of them teenagers. The bombing was carried out by Orlando Bosch and Luis Posada Carriles. These two were also responsible for the assassination by car-bomb of the former Chilean diplomat Orlando Letelier in Washington DC [plus an innocent American bystander] and an attack on a Polish ship using a 57mm recoiless rifle.

Many countries seek the extradition of these two terrorists but both are protected and free and live in the USA. Bosch was described by the Department of Defense as "one of the most deadly terrorists working within the hemisphere" yet Bush gave him a Presidential Pardon in 1990 in order to secure the Cuban vote in Florida for his son Jeb.

Luis Cariles was freed on bail in Miami yesterday. He had been arrested after entering the USA illegallly and using a false identity. No further charges seem likely and the USA is blocking any extradition to answer for his crimes. Both of these 'gentlemen' have close links to the CIA and Bosch was instrumental in providing the Ayatollahs with weapons during the Reagan presidency.

And yet the USA sees fit to kidnap and torture suspects around the world, many of them innocent of any crime whilst protecting real terrorists on it's own soil.

I am like a lot of British; I don't really equate you Americans as firemen who I might one day need to call out in an emergency. You are more like spoiled and wilful children wandering the world with a box of matches and a can of gasoline.

RM

Well put Bergs.

What about the Americans supplying the IRA , with funds in the 70s and 80s, because there great grandaddy was Irish, they needed a cause without any retribution, but it cost many lives, even children!!

I do like the states and its people, having visited the country many times, but just please just look at the bigger picture of what is happening in your own back yard and in other countries, it has an effect because you guys are a global power in many ways, it effects the moral, and political being of many other countrys around the globe.

 

[Bergen]

For crying out loud, another America is shit thread. Our Cousins although similar to us are in the end are as different as any other nation on this planet. I found the Americans outstandingly welcome and friendly, and this isnt just for the tourist dollar. Yes many are naive to cultures outside their vast country but does that make them bad people. Americans have the same social problems as us, but being in the states they are naturally bigger. To have a go about American hypocrisy in terrorism one can only look at our governments pandering to the IRA in the last 10 years.
Ask yourself where would you rather live, London or Washington?

The answer is really a no-brainer. Most people have a perception that Washington DC is all white marble buildings, wide avenues and clipped lawns. In reality it is a sink city with one of the highest crime rates in the USA and some of the poorest and most run-down neighbourhoods anywhere.

Murder statistics reveal the true nature of the beast. Between 1995 and 2005 there were 2938 homicides in Washington DC. Most of them shootings.

I think that I would rather live in London.

RM

 

[msgsmiley]

Grapeshot, it is not typical British humor. It is what it is. Bergen lives in Texas and makes his living here. So there is no difference between him and someone else going to another country to get his boodle. As far as Americans supporting the IRA, I never gave a penny to one of those bloody terrorists. Thats a pretty broad brush to say Americans supported them. As if no other source of money was involved? And my ancestors came from Ireland. The description of DC is fair enough. But I can find worse conditions anywhere else in this world and have seen them in my travels. Just because I like or dislike a foreign leader does not color how I view the individual citizen of that nation. It is a little presumptive of foreigners to tell others that they should elect leaders that suit them. Remember most of the opinions and rants on here will end up in the porcelin queen. Welcome to British hospitility.

 

[Bergen]

Grapeshot, it is not typical British humor. It is what it is. Bergen lives in Texas and makes his living here. So there is no difference between him and someone else going to another country to get his boodle. As far as Americans supporting the IRA, I never gave a penny to one of those bloody terrorists. Thats a pretty broad brush to say Americans supported them. As if no other source of money was involved? And my ancestors came from Ireland. The description of DC is fair enough. But I can find worse conditions anywhere else in this world and have seen them in my travels. Just because I like or dislike a foreign leader does not color how I view the individual citizen of that nation. It is a little presumptive of foreigners to tell others that they should elect leaders that suit them. Remember most of the opinions and rants on here will end up in the porcelin queen. Welcome to British hospitility.

Smiley....were you an abused child? Were you dropped on your head often? Did you make a habit of attempting to exit your tank before opening the hatch? Have you undergone major neuro-surgery?

Of course there are worse places in the world than Washington DC. That was never an issue....the discussion was a comparison between 2 cities...Washington and London. Hellllooooooo!!!!!

The primary source of funding for the IRA and Irish Republican umbrella organisations was from the USA. It was common to find groups of American 'sympathisers' in the Republican strongholds and IRA weapons were almost exclusively American; everything from Thompsons and Armalites to Barrett Light 50's.

As for your assertions that it is presumptive of foreigners to tell others that they should elect leaders that suit them......that is exactly what the USA has been doing for the past 200 years. This is the reason why the USA is truly hated in South America and the Middle East. It may have escaped your attention that this is what is happening with the USA in Iraq at the moment.


RM

 

[Golly71]

As a Yank and a Navy Veteran, I must say I'm surprised we are despised so much by you folks. Yea, the 2nd amendment to our Constitution does guarantee our right to buy and possess firearms. Sorry it angers you so. (Not really) Yea, we make mistakes. Yea, our politicians are for the most part a bunch of nitwits. I'm sorry that upsets you. (Not really) Yea, a lot of us only care about what is happening here and no where else. I hate that fact appears to cause you indigestion. (Not really) I only joined Rum Ration 6 days ago but I have already come to the conclusion that Europe and Great Britain look on America that same way many Americans look at their local Fire Department. Just a bunch of lazy do nothings who don't care a wit about anything outside the fire station. A waste of the honest taxpayers money. Until you house is on fire. Then you are damn glad we are there. And next time you see flames and your lives & property are in danger, make two calls. One to us and the other to the EU in Brussels. See who shows up first. So bash away my friends! We can take it.

As Stumpy says alot of it is British piss taking don't take it to heart. I for one would rather have you yanks on our side than some of the spineless bastards in Europe. Don't really have alot of time for Bush but then I hate the TWAT in No.10. I'm speaking as an ex-matelot and now as a firefighter. I've been spat at in the street and called everything from a [email protected] to a babykiller by the very same people who come crying to you if their house is on fire or trapped in their crashed car. Chin up mate keep smiling :lol:

 

[msgsmiley]

There is a report at the UN as to the biggest killer of people world wide. It only deals with the deaths and not the wounding and maiming. It will be interesting to know what this august body will come up with as a solution for this killer. Can anyone on here name the killer. Hint: it is not Americans

 

[chieftiff]

I believe the Worlds biggest killers are all diseases. Starting with Lower Respiratory Infection including Pneumonia closely followed by HIV/ AIDS and then the old favourite the mosquito, according to Reuters anyway: http://www.alertnet.org/topkillerdiseases.htm

 

[msgsmiley]

Another civil post by Bubba Bergen. Not biting. The thread is definitly anti-American before I ever came on it. You couldn't wait to pounce on grapeshot now could you Bubba? I wasn't defending any of the actions of who did or did not support terrorists. But it is stupid to say all Americans did. And you did imply that. As for saying Americans tell everyone world wide what leaders to elect, evidently we are not doing a very good job in China, India, Pakistan, Russia, Africa, Canada, England, Ireland, Venezulea, Colombia, Mexico, Japan, Phillipines, Australia, New Zealand, North Korea, South Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia, Spain(terrorists tell them who to elect there), Portugal, France, Greece, Turkey, Italy. I think a rational person gets the picture. Have you seen your head doctor lately to see what makes you so unhappy? Take a chill pill, lower your blood pressure and relax. The world will not stop turning because everyone worldwide does not see eye to eye with you.

 

[msgsmiley]

Let me clarify the the worlds biggest killer that the UN is looking into. It happens every year and kills 400,000 plus people. It is current and not historical. Can anyone name it? And I am not a genuis that just came up with this. It was reported in the paper here yesterday. Surprised you haven't read about it over there. I knew it was the biggest killer here in the states on a yearly basis but had no idea that translated to worldwide also.

 

[chieftiff]

I suspect you are referring to the use of tobacco products?

 

[msgsmiley]

You are close Chief, but this article said the UN has named the automobile the biggest killer of people worldwide. It is in the US with it's 43,000 deaths a year. That doesn't take into account all the wounded and maimed from the auto accidents. Next time you drive be careful.

 

[Bergen]

Another civil post by Bubba Bergen. Not biting. The thread is definitly anti-American before I ever came on it. You couldn't wait to pounce on grapeshot now could you Bubba? I wasn't defending any of the actions of who did or did not support terrorists. But it is stupid to say all Americans did. And you did imply that. As for saying Americans tell everyone world wide what leaders to elect, evidently we are not doing a very good job in China, India, Pakistan, Russia, Africa, Canada, England, Ireland, Venezulea, Colombia, Mexico, Japan, Phillipines, Australia, New Zealand, North Korea, South Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia, Spain(terrorists tell them who to elect there), Portugal, France, Greece, Turkey, Italy. I think a rational person gets the picture. Have you seen your head doctor lately to see what makes you so unhappy? Take a chill pill, lower your blood pressure and relax. The world will not stop turning because everyone worldwide does not see eye to eye with you.

I think that countries as well as individuals should be judged by worldwide public opinion.

RM

 

[rugger_bob]

Let me clarify the the worlds biggest killer that the UN is looking into. It happens every year and kills 400,000 plus people. It is current and not historical. Can anyone name it? And I am not a genuis that just came up with this. It was reported in the paper here yesterday. Surprised you haven't read about it over there. I knew it was the biggest killer here in the states on a yearly basis but had no idea that translated to worldwide also.

American Force's, with blue on blue !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, shoot first ask questions later

 

[msgsmiley]

Bubba, surely you jest. You go for opinion over facts? Thank God you are not a Judge in any court.

 

[Bergen]

Bubba, surely you jest. You go for opinion over facts? Thank God you are not a Judge in any court.

I was paraphrasing from a document that I hold in high regard:

"Nations, as well as individuals, are amenable for their acts to the public opinion of all mankind"

It's from the Declaration of Independence of the Republic of Texas. Proclaimed at Washington on the Brazos on March 2nd 1836 and as applicable now as it was then.

RM

 

[msgsmiley]

Well Bubba, When you do that and others do not know the context of what you are saying, could you possibly be doing that so you can show how smart you are if they bite on it? Can you tell me what determined the time of year for Napoleon and His Grand Armee to launch the attack on Russia.
I know this is off thread but just checking that high IQ of yours out.

 

[sussex2]

Another civil post by Bubba Bergen. Not biting. The thread is definitly anti-American before I ever came on it. You couldn't wait to pounce on grapeshot now could you Bubba? I wasn't defending any of the actions of who did or did not support terrorists. But it is stupid to say all Americans did. And you did imply that. As for saying Americans tell everyone world wide what leaders to elect, evidently we are not doing a very good job in China, India, Pakistan, Russia, Africa, Canada, England, Ireland, Venezulea, Colombia, Mexico, Japan, Phillipines, Australia, New Zealand, North Korea, South Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia, Spain(terrorists tell them who to elect there), Portugal, France, Greece, Turkey, Italy. I think a rational person gets the picture. Have you seen your head doctor lately to see what makes you so unhappy? Take a chill pill, lower your blood pressure and relax. The world will not stop turning because everyone worldwide does not see eye to eye with you.

Excuse me but, but you are not getting away with that.
As one who was in Spain when 200 plus people were ripped to shreds on commuter trains.
The Aznar right-wing Francoist government handled the matter in a predictable and ham handed way, hoping perhaps that this would improve its' chances in the forthcoming elections.
This government told frank lies to the nation, blaming the murders on ETA, though there was no evidence whatsoever to link that organisation with the bombs. Despite this they persisted in attempting to blame ETA.
The people understood they were being lied to and took to the streets in the way only the Spanish can, millions of them, some estimates are that 30percent of the population turned out.
They chanted that they wanted the truth, understanding they were being mislead.
Likewise they turned out in some of the highest numbers seen worldwide to protest at the invasion of Iraq.
The Aznar government was in their Francoist way against any kind of separatist movement in Spain, which is not a single nation state but made up of separates states with their own identities, some with parliaments and governments of their own, under the umbrella of Madrid. The country has at least four distincly different languages.
They cynically saw the bombs as a method of attracting an anti ETA vote at the forthcoming elections.
The country stands by the United Nations and that is the reason why they withdrew their forces from Iraq. Aznar had put them in as an 'old boy' gesture to Bush. Spain has considerable forces under UN auspices in Afghanistan and in more other countries worldwide than the UK. They have armed forces capable of sustaining these operations.
As I write the defendants caught as a result of the murder investigations after the 11th of March are on trial and so in the publics' mind is the Aznar government, or if not them the PP party who will rue the day they attempted to hoodwink the Spanish people.
Spain is a fledgling republic with a strong constitution and a politically aware population.

 

[Bergen]

Another civil post by Bubba Bergen. Not biting. The thread is definitly anti-American before I ever came on it. You couldn't wait to pounce on grapeshot now could you Bubba? I wasn't defending any of the actions of who did or did not support terrorists. But it is stupid to say all Americans did. And you did imply that. As for saying Americans tell everyone world wide what leaders to elect, evidently we are not doing a very good job in China, India, Pakistan, Russia, Africa, Canada, England, Ireland, Venezulea, Colombia, Mexico, Japan, Phillipines, Australia, New Zealand, North Korea, South Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia, Spain(terrorists tell them who to elect there), Portugal, France, Greece, Turkey, Italy. I think a rational person gets the picture. Have you seen your head doctor lately to see what makes you so unhappy? Take a chill pill, lower your blood pressure and relax. The world will not stop turning because everyone worldwide does not see eye to eye with you.

Excuse me but, but you are not getting away with that.
As one who was in Spain when 200 plus people were ripped to shreds on commuter trains.
The Aznar right-wing Francoist government handled the matter in a predictable and ham handed way, hoping perhaps that this would improve its' chances in the forthcoming elections.
This government told frank lies to the nation, blaming the murders on ETA, though there was no evidence whatsoever to link that organisation with the bombs. Despite this they persisted in attempting to blame ETA.
The people understood they were being lied to and took to the streets in the way only the Spanish can, millions of them, some estimates are that 30percent of the population turned out.
They chanted that they wanted the truth, understanding they were being mislead.
Likewise they turned out in some of the highest numbers seen worldwide to protest at the invasion of Iraq.
The Aznar government was in their Francoist way against any kind of separatist movement in Spain, which is not a single nation state but made up of separates states with their own identities, some with parliaments and governments of their own, under the umbrella of Madrid. The country has at least four distincly different languages.
They cynically saw the bombs as a method of attracting an anti ETA vote at the forthcoming elections.
The country stands by the United Nations and that is the reason why they withdrew their forces from Iraq. Aznar had put them in as an 'old boy' gesture to Bush. Spain has considerable forces under UN auspices in Afghanistan and in more other countries worldwide than the UK. They have armed forces capable of sustaining these operations.
As I write the defendants caught as a result of the murder investigations after the 11th of March are on trial and so in the publics' mind is the Aznar government, or if not them the PP party who will rue the day they attempted to hoodwink the Spanish people.
Spain is a fledgling republic with a strong constitution and a politically aware population.

I think that you have made a mistake here S2. Not in your reply which is lucid, factual and well written but in engaging the Master Sergeant in any logical discussion.

The former Spanish government were voted out by a politically savvy electorate and the present Spanish government has acted impeccably in dealing with aftermath of the terrorist attack. This thread is entitled "Americans Prefer Not To Know" and this is correct at multiple levels; how else could they have allowed Bush the latitude to behave in the way he has.

RM

 

[Jarhead]

because bush has successfully danced along the lines of whether we can impeach him or not; that plus the replublican dominated house and senate means there are few checks.

Bush has stretched the line of his powers entirely too much, and i for one, am looking forward to having someone else in office.

 

[Bergen]

because bush has successfully danced along the lines of whether we can impeach him or not; that plus the replublican dominated house and senate means there are few checks.

Bush has stretched the line of his powers entirely too much, and i for one, am looking forward to having someone else in office.

JS - In your opinion does the US body politic operate better when the Executive Branch is controlled by a different party to the Legislature and effective checks and balances are in place?

RM