Allah or the Lord Jesus Christ?

Discussion in 'The Quarterdeck' started by AAV_Russ, Jun 25, 2008.

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  1. This may already be on the forum, but if it is I cant find it.
    Recived by Email.

    The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion in the UK.

    Last month I attended (not Me Really) an annual training session that's required for maintaining my prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs.

    I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video.

    After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

    When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked, â€Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, [which is a command to all Muslims] they are assured of a place in Heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?â€

    There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, “Non-believers!â€

    I responded, “So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?â€

    The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of 'a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar’.

    He sheepishly replied, “Yes.â€

    I then stated, “Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope Benedict commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in heaven!â€

    The Imam was speechless!

    I continued, “I also have problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to heaven and He wants you to be there with me?â€

    You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with my way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs.

    In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the UK to elect a government of their choice, complete with sharia law.

    I think everyone in the UK should be required to read this, but with the Liberal justice system, liberal media and the political correctness madness, there is no way this will be widely publicized.

    Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts.
  2. This is a bit over the top, "fastest growing religion" is just a manipulation of language, it is growing the fastest but what difference does that make? they are still the minority and probably always will be. Britain has a lower percentage of muslims than many other countries -

    I'm quite conservative but I'm really not that worried, if you believe everything that the daily mail spews out then it sounds like a problem, but it really isn't. It is true that if the number of british muslims continue to grow at the current rate then they would out number other religions, but the rate will slow sometime soon, minority groups usually increase faster in number than majority ones.

    Even if they did outnumber other groups, which isn't going to happen, it isn't as though they would all vote in their own government, especially not one that brought sharia law with it; even many countries with a muslim majority don't follow sharia.

    You also can't judge the whole muslim community on the words of one Imam, most of them are sensible rational people. As time goes on, its probable that the religion will be taken less seriously, just like christianity - I know muslims that go out drinking, have extra-marital sex and ignore the Qur'an in general, don't tar then all with the same brush.
  3. Particularly when many Imams have only a very narrow training and don't know how representative their view of the Q'uran and associated material is. The above grossly misrepresents the majority view, and since it's a chain email that's been doing the rounds for years I'd call bollox on it.
  4. His reply was not strictly correct, though his reply will be related to which tradition he belongs! The Koran (& Hadith) like the Bible (with which it shares many similarities) contain passages which contradict earlier passages (which is why you cannot, in practice believe in inerrancy in the scripture of either religion, contrary to popular belief). On the one hand the Prophet called for Muslims to tolerate other beliefs (as distinct from those without any religious belief) which was practiced in early Islam and continues to be widely practiced today, contrary to claims made by some militant conservative Christians). Calls for Kuffir to be killed must be seen in their proper historical context: Islam militarily threatened by the Crusaders. To complicate matters further you cannot simply think in terms of Sunni/Shia Muslims but must be aquainted with Fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence) which is inconsistent with different jurisdictions and Imams issuing different rulings (that much abused term: fatwa). The current strict interpretation of (selected) texts is a result of the Hanbalite tradition which has become the dominant (but not universal) school of thought.
    If you want to investigate the traditions further on the specific issue of Islamic ethics, I can recommend the definitive book to date:

    Michael COOK: Commanding Right and Forbidding Wrong in Islamic Thought.

    Available HERE:

    (Interestingly the paperback appears to cost more than I paid for my hardback copy - though I did get a 10% NUS discount at the time! :lol: )

    PS: If you haven't studied philosophy or theology you might find it a bit heavy going - but I'm sure HarryBosch can help, in return for you plying him with several dozen wets! :thumright:
  5. Who the hell is Dr Stanley? He's just got be a Septic and IC Own Cult.
  6. Wasn't he an oppo of Livingstone (no not the MP)? :lol:

    "Dr Stanley I presume?"
  7. That's peculiar. According to this site about urban legends, a very similar e-mail appeared in Dec 2003 without any reference to the Muslim religion being the fastest growing anywhere. The entire text was:

    An amended cut down version of the e-mail appeared here in April 2004:

    By the time it appeared on this website in December last year, the e-mail had a new prefix:

    Other versions can be found here, here, here, etc, ad infinitum. Now the guy seems to have crossed the Atlantic and is working in a British prison. Did you ever wonder how malicious and unfounded urban legends get perpetuated?

    Now you know.
  8. So does the vatican really have a secret stash of porn?
  9. Excellent! Someone who knows the real crux of the religion problem; but, unfortunately, if we take the various scandals into account then it's probably nothing anyone wants to see anyway. Then again, if you allow for the 0.2% claim then there's probably a whole world of clerical snuff littering the place.
  10. Religion ye gods don't get me going!!!!
  11. chieftiff

    chieftiff War Hero Moderator

    Particularly when this Imam wasn't (an Imam) and no-one present could actually recall the events as described!

    Snopes' investigation re: Allah v Jesus
  12. Now when I was a lad it was the Catholics V the Prods.

    Me being a Cof E the Catholics are the bad guys. Now we have the Catholics are the good guys and the Muslims are the bad.

    We often used to chat about the scraps as kids over a pint it was just kids stuff. Unlike that crazy lot up North!!

    What totally pisses me off about religion is the animal cruelty under the guise of a religious festival.
  13. OK I've just come back from the pub but here goes: :

    If a religion/sect/whatever state that the only way to achieve paradise/heaven/asgard etc is to kill all unbelievers, what happens when all the unbelievers are wiped out?

    How do they get to paradise/heaven/asgard etc. then eh? eh?

    Didn't think of that one, did they? :joker:
  14. Only in the secret archives. When I was at school we were informed that the reading of certain books was PROHIBITED! Oooooh! That's what got me into reading Nietzsche at 15 - cause it was BANNED! :lol: Moral: if you ban books people are just more curious to read them, even works they wouldn't have dreamed of reading beforehand. :biggrin:

    Sussex, I suggest you study theology for a university certificate/diploma at night school (just out of curiousity). What is really interesting is that what you thought scripture said, is, upon closer scrutiny, nothing of the kind. That said I'm still a committed, practicing Humanist and devout atheist. :) For example take a look at Paul's correspondence with the Corinthians and read the original text etymologically. You soon realise that so-called clear texts are nothing of the sort. They are only clear in translation because an ideological gloss has been applied. Thus the NIV of the Bible attributes precise notions to Paul which are in none of the original, surviving transcripts (6 in all, of which the Alexandrian seems the most uniform and consistent) upon which their translations are based. None of Paul's original work is known to have survived (or at least that was the case in 1995). After all, to attack your enemy you need first to know his (theological) weaknesses. :twisted:

    PS: I have a great deal more respect for Paul that I did prior to 1995.

    PPS: Fancy doing a Bachelor of Theology degree together in London? You're paying by the way! ;) :thumright:
  15. Ergo it'd s alll ballocks
    Fuvk, I wish I was sober (to a degree). Viva Espana los Peliacanos! Dos 801 NAS!bollocks!
    (Several hours later): Wow.... I was definitely drunk. Don't know why I was on about Spain and "Peliacanos" though, or 801 either, tbh. :thumright:
  16. I believe in Santa Claus more than I believe in Allah or Jesus.
    At least he brings me some cheer once a year instead of promising it to me in the here after.
    And even then it's only a 50.50 bet, I'll probably go the other way anyhow.
  17. I thank God I'm agnostic!
  18. Be lonely in the other place not knowing anyone.

    I wish I had met the old priest long ago in Ireland.

    The coalman used to sell "HOT COAL" he used to take a few pieces from sacks he would deliver to the knobs and sell it at a reduced rate to the poor. An Irish version of Robin Hood. Only the coalman made a profit.

    Bless me father for I have sinned I have recieved "HOT COAL" the priest was told of this hot coal. Go on your way my son and when you see the coalman tell him I am interested in a few bags of "HOT COAL"

    This guy I like!!
  19. Feck all to do up the Pole they breed like rabbits

  20. Most of these racist chain emails are a fecking lame effort. Like some dumbarse prisoner is going to out smug 3 educated clerics as piss easy as that. Chadder than my mums dads Phyz rig. I would love them to be true but they are not. We are all doomed anyhow, All your grandkids will be muslims, eat as much bacon and sausages whilst you can. :toilet:

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