Aircrew Training

Discussion in 'The Fleet Air Arm' started by Diesel_Transfusion, Apr 3, 2007.

Welcome to the Navy Net aka Rum Ration

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial RN website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Shipmates, I have been offered the privilige becoming a Looker in the Air Arm and begin at BRNC 23rd April. Have been waiting for this for god knows how long and looking forward to getting started.

    I have a slight worry though, my first choice was Pilot, second was Observer, and having completed the aptitude tests and all the rest of it i was advised by the Board and Afco that my results for Pilot were V. Sat and Obs. Sat. Happy with that, as i felt a more hands on job would be more my natural ability.

    I was offered Observer though, and despite initially being a bit disappointed very soon got over it and realised that generally I could have an amazing career nevertheless.

    My issue is, if it turns out my aptitude for Observer isnt upto scratch, and I don't pass grading, what options will be open to me? I am fully aware that I shouldnt expect to be able to change branch or be offered such, and have to trust that the AIB put me in Obs. as they believed I have the capacity to handle it. Have any of you been able to change branches if what you were assigned as did not work out? (either way) And if so how did you accomplish this.

    As I said, it is just a niggle in the back of my mind and am certainly not planning to jump branch just like that if i get the opportunity, however I really dont want to get planted in civvie street for the rest of my life if Observer doesnt work out. (nearly the ripe old age of 24)

    thanks for the help, Send back, over.

    JAFO... (i hope.)
  2. Evening chap. I'm in your intake as a pilot. I can't imagine AIB putting you in for £800,000 worth of training if they don't think you can handle it.

    I'll leave it to some of the old hands to go into further detail though.

    Are you going up for the brief on Thursday?

  3. silverfox

    silverfox War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    If you don't pass grading then the automatic option is the exit door. Which can lead to enormous frustration all round - for the cadet and intead the BRNC staff, because by that stage the individual will have passed ACE and his/her potential will be obvious. There are options to transfer but those are rare, having said that now that BRNC has the pipeline ownership, things may have changed.

    If you are withdrawn from training - it will take at least a month or so to process the paperwork. What did happen with one enterprising chap when I was there, was that he re did an AIB whilst waiting, got a better pass and re-appeared on our doorstep as a NE ringbolt kicker almost before he was officially discharged as aircrew. Needless to say we were v happy and he did fine.
  4. From my recent (most of 2006) experience at BRNC, the automatic option is on failing grading is not to be kicked out.
    Firstly I'd agree with aljh that the RN wouldn't put you into Obs pipeline if they didn't think that you had the potential to complete training.
    From my recollection, of those that failed Obs grading, 1 was offered Warfare and took it, 1 was offered warfare but didn't take it and left. 1 wanted logs but didn't get it and was kicked out and 1 wasn't offered anything and was kicked out. 1 guy passed as a training risk and left of his own accord.
    This doesn't sound too good on numbers but those that weren't offered anything else were mainly gash and had failed ACE etc. so the Cdre didn't seem to see their potential to progress.
    If you fail you get a week or so to pick a branch you want to get into, put together a case to stay in and get yourself known as a keen bean.
  5. silverfox

    silverfox War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Thanks for the update - it was always a tough battle to convice their lordships to allow branch transfers in worthy cases..
  6. Ta chaps, some handy info there.

    Well if I end up in that battle im damn well gona bring it...... though will make it easy on myself in the first place and go through nice and smoothly.
  7. Bit of a thought, nothing else - 'Potential' is a funny thing. You don't really know if you have it or not until you are told you have failed i would think, which I would think could be a pretty negative experience. Trying to live up to it must be pretty hard work hey, so I guess you just carry on and try to keep up with whats required of you.

    I think that if at some point you do fail to achieve your initially identified potential - i.e. hypothetically someone does not pass grading or whatever, surely as strong and worthy a trait is that of overcoming it. I personally would regard strength of character in that respect either an equal if not greater trait to have 'potential'. How much if at all do you think this taken into account in AIBs etc. Trying to think back to my interviews and think of what i might have said or what was asked to look into that.

    Endex of that 'moment', should be working....
  8. I have recently passed AIB for aircrew (awaiting medical results). In my debreif at AIB the board pres. told me that my aptitude scores weren't great, although pilot being better than obs. He then went on to tell me there is a high chance of obsever being offered (infact our whole board was told this). He knew this wasn't what I wanted to hear because it was one of the questions that I had in the interview, in which I had said I wouldn't take an observer offer. In the debrief he said there could be 'implications' if I werent to accept it!

    Does this mean I will not be considered again if i do find myself in this situation (which I would currently reject, being only 18 and really wanting pilot)?
    Has anyone known other people in this situation in the past?
  9. Youve got a bit more time on your side.

    I expect if you rejected Observer, then you would stay on their lists until either your score gave u a place as a Pilot or the 12 months is up and u have to re apply.
  10. I rejected observer first time round, and now I start as pilot in little over 2 weeks. So no, you shouldn't have any trouble, but you will probably have to redo your FATs as I did.
  11. cheers, thats put my mind at rest, well a little bit. ill still be pissed if i don't get in this time round! :D
  12. (I write as a non-WAFU, but...)

    The RN is massively short of O's, and full to the brim with P, hence why you were all offered O. In the last BOC, they had a horrific chop rate (80% was banded about in the bar, and this wasn't a one off) so need to keep on pushing people in at the bottom to try and get some kind of through flow going. I've no doubt that there are WAFU types lurking who can confirm/deny this?
  13. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    When you get to BRNC be open and honest with your Divisional Officer. The failure rate for Aircrew can be pretty hideous, having a backup is just sensible. Try and have a think about the different bracnhwes/specialisms before you arrive - if you fail grading what next? Warfare, Logistics, Engineering..?

    Bear in mind that to get a transfer you have to have been doing well in all of the BRNC tests and gradings, make a positive impression with our DO and the Senior DO, they will be the ones to fight your corner with the Cdre.

    It doesn't end at BRNC sadly, there are plenty of opportunties to fail so keep these options in your back pocket, ultimately the Navy wants people commited so make sure they know that and you'll stand a good chance of being retained.
  14. you can always become an OM, they are looking for young ones that in the face of the enemy will cry themselves to sleep
  15. The bastards always do that. When I went in, a long time ago, I'd failed Obs tests and passed Pilot. I got offered pilot. My mate passed both, said he'd take Observer if that was all he was offered, and (even though he'd applied to be a pilot) he was told he was now an Observer!

    Personally, I'd stick out for pilot if that's what you really want. Surely, given you passed the pilot tests well, if you failed the Obs course they'd offer you pilot straight away? When I was in, that happened to one of our guys as I remember.
    The guys are right to say a lot of students get chopped on BOC, it's a tough course. Not that pilot training is easy, either.
  16. I've never lurked in my life! I'll have you know, but you are right they are very short of Observers.....especially ones with their own dits...Twats
  17. Do you have a Degree?

    Could be important at the Naval Air Advisory Board (NAAB) if the worst comes to the worst and you get chopped as aircrew:

    Pilots are getting chopped wherever they can, to cut numbers down; and as for BOC courses, sometimes it might be 80% fail, 50/50 or others where it's 80% pass: all depends on the calibre of the individual (even down to being a nice chap: if you're a [email protected], you won't get any help from instructors when you need it. If you're decent (fully dressed as well as nice), then they'll dig out for more than you can ask.

    Pilots can get restreamed observer (not the otherway round though), or choppees from either branch might get ATC (If the War Fairies who throw teddy out the pram don't get there first!). If you have a relevant degree (e.g. Eng), you could get sent (A/W/M)EO, or even Engineering Training Manager (Do they still do EIS too?)

    Other Branches that typically don't need a degree (X & Logs) can still be choosey as it's a Buyer's Market as far as degrees are concerned, and even being keen without a degree won't guarantee you a spot on their professional courses.

    All the above have happened to people within the past few years in Flying Training.

    Hope it helps, good luck. :)

  18. Having taught BOC in my past, I read with interest peoples 'thoughts' on the chop rates at 750. Yes they can be high, but it also not uncommon for an entire course to sail through (although it might not be a painless experience!). The 2 main reasons for course failure are generally 1) Inability, and 2)poor attitude/work ethic. Those that fail because of 1) generally can be re-trained into another branch, those failing because of 2) (Pretty rare) can hand in their ID card at the gate. The instructors entire goal is to get everyone through, but even so we expect a chop rate of 1-2 per course (20-25%).

    My advice, if you are selected as an Observer, hit flying training with everything you have. If you hold back and start thinking what your alternatives are you are sidetracking yourself from your ultimate aim - WINGS. If the effort is put in, it will be noticed, and that can be the difference between passing and failing.

    Only when NAAB tell you it is over it ends.

    Positive attitude, well motivated, goal orientated - that light at the end of the tunnel is not always a train!
  19. Not strictly true - NAAB make a recommendation following suspension from flying training - ACOS(AV) makes the decision.
  20. Not going to split hairs, overall message was more important

Share This Page