Britain's armed forces could be reduced to a "tinpot gendarmerie" because of a lack of investment, the former head of the Royal Navy has warned.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6207267.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6207267.stm
Seadog said:I used to moan about Senior Officers gobbing off after retirement but I note General Jackson's recent comments (mentioned in the previous post) and mellowed.
Going public while in office is a matter for the individual Officer. Some of them may feel that they have a duty not to have an undignified public slanging match with the Ministry/Fuehrer Bunker.
I don't believe their pensions would be at risk if they did. A disimissal may mean up to two years service chopped off but after 35 years in, who'd notice?
Anyway, Admiral West remains on the Active List (without an appointment) as does Admiral Boyce and a few others.
tonrus said:I think it was actually Admiral Band. Watched it on Sky News from the carrier at Greenwich when the details of Falklands 25 were published.
Seadog said:I used to moan about Senior Officers gobbing off after retirement but I note General Jackson's recent comments (mentioned in the previous post) and mellowed.
Going public while in office is a matter for the individual Officer. Some of them may feel that they have a duty not to have an undignified public slanging match with the Ministry/Fuehrer Bunker.
I don't believe their pensions would be at risk if they did. A disimissal may mean up to two years service chopped off but after 35 years in, who'd notice?
Anyway, Admiral West remains on the Active List (without an appointment) as does Admiral Boyce and a few others.
I have no doubt in the willingness of the RN's manpower to do such a task but we simply can't do it without resorting to instant sunshine
Seadog said:The RFA is probably more capable than in 1982 and even more so when all LPD(A)s are in service plus Albion, Bulwark, Ocean; that'll get the booties ashore (though most of them are in Afghanistan). The RFA now have a PCRF (we had to use STUFT in 82). Argus and Diligence went south in their previous commercial lives, MoD liked them so much, they bought them (two less to requisition/charter). We have a six ship strategic lift capability (hardly anyone knows about though no secret) we didn't have in 82 when we used STUFT.
Commercial? The commercial shipping world has always supplied troop ships. Canberra has gone but P&O have other cruise ships (not liners). Cunard? QE2 is still around and maybe they'd throw inthe Queen Mary. Nice.
So that's logistics, trooping and landing taken care of. Escorts and aircover anyone?
While putting on your armchair admiral's rig, recall the Tugg cartoon at the time, Jack and his oppos sittiing around in anti flash over a map of the Falklands. Jack is holding court.
If I was the task force commander I'd out the booties in here, the paras in there and the pongos in here.
Matey replies; if you were the task force commander none of them would have come down here.
My post wasn't aimed at you. My comment was directed at everyone, self included.Very patronising to regard me as an Armchair Admiral
Escorts and aircover anyone?
The refit is part of a Ship Life Extension. It isn't anything like beyond its useful life.Argus - way beyond it's useful life. Now in refit in Falmouth
Fair one.I may not work in amongst the rarified atmosphere at Leach Building, but out in the fleet, confidence is low, morale flatlining and our stable world of doing what we do for the flag undermined by shady individuals more bothered by cash than by their 'greatest armed forces in the world'. (c) Blair and Hoon productions - 2003.
"I have been in the Navy for 40 years and in my time have fought in a fairly large maritime war - the Falklands - where, of 23 frigates and destroyers sent to the South Atlantic in the task force, four were sunk and eight were damaged. My own ship was sunk in Falkland Sound. It was a pretty high attrition rate. Therefore having only a dozen major surface warships available for an operation is indeed likely to be unrealistic. In fact, this country needs about 30 surface combatants to carry out standing tasks and handle contingencies like sending a task group to take part in a major operation. The reduction from 32 to 25 frigates and destroyers was only accepted with great reluctance. However, the package of money that the Royal Navy receives does not allow us to have 30 destroyers and frigates, especially as the future carrier, amphibious ships and other programmes are a high priority."
Seadog said:The refit is part of a Ship Life Extension. It isn't anything like beyond it's useful life.
Levers_Aligned said:Don't get me wrong. I don't expect to government to dip their hands into their shallow pockets and spunk millions against the wall, like we used to. But there are limits. There are limits of operability, safety and credibility that you can expect a vessel - especially a specialised fighting one - to operate within. There are limits to which you can incorporate 'change', there are limits to which you can actively tolerate the giddying rate of incoming shit and corruption that overstretch and churn issues into the blloodstream. This is why we face a dearth of specialist talent, a growing tide of sub-standard recruitment and a desperate upgrading of equally poor leaders currently occupying key positions in the dark blue line. It doesn't happen by accident, necessity or by strategy. It happens through incompetence, ambivalence and neglect. The sort of stuff that, if found out practicing, one would hope or exect to lose one's job over. So why isn't anyone calling for them to step down? Why is the person who instigated a wholly shortsighted and morally imbecilic notion shuch as the OM strategy still employed by the RN? It caused one of the biggest uphevals in manning ever, rid several branches of key personnel and caused a further spasm ten years later which we are now trying vainly to restructure over. These people are still employed by the same company.
Why?
Levers