A serious debate is called for

Many complaints of trivia RR suffers. Let's have some serious debate . This will start the ball rolling.

Shall we compare the Indian Navy with ours as of June 2010? This "Third World" country had ,in commission ,170 vessels We had 87 with 5 not formally commissioned. Of that 87 some would barely qualify for a HMS cap tally.

We are desperately short of warships but over-endowed with Flag Officer's Gold Lace which makes it look as if we have sufficient
I was at The Naval Cliub a month or so ago when three Rear Admirals were present, with not one bearing a Campaign Medal. What experience can they possibly have?
 

2_deck_dash

War Hero
And what good is ranting and raving about it here going to do?

Yeah the Navy is shite these days, boo hoo. Best get used to it shippers cos it's only going to get smaller and shiter.
 
2_deck_dash said:
And what good is ranting and raving about it here going to do?

Yeah the Navy is shite these days, boo hoo. Best get used to it shippers cos it's only going to get smaller and shiter.
More serious debate.
 
The-Oracle3 said:
Many complaints of trivia RR suffers. Let's have some serious debate . This will start the ball rolling.

Shall we compare the Indian Navy with ours as of June 2010? This "Third World" country had ,in commission ,170 vessels We had 87 with 5 not formally commissioned. Of that 87 some would barely qualify for a HMS cap tally.

We are desperately short of warships but over-endowed with Flag Officer's Gold Lace which makes it look as if we have sufficient
I was at The Naval Cliub a month or so ago when three Rear Admirals were present, with not one bearing a Campaign Medal. What experience can they possibly have?
well that was your first mistake...
 
kinross_special said:
The-Oracle3 said:
Many complaints of trivia RR suffers. Let's have some serious debate . This will start the ball rolling.

Shall we compare the Indian Navy with ours as of June 2010? This "Third World" country had ,in commission ,170 vessels We had 87 with 5 not formally commissioned. Of that 87 some would barely qualify for a HMS cap tally.

We are desperately short of warships but over-endowed with Flag Officer's Gold Lace which makes it look as if we have sufficient
I was at The Naval Cliub a month or so ago when three Rear Admirals were present, with not one bearing a Campaign Medal. What experience can they possibly have?
well that was your first mistake...
Further intelligent comment
 

2_deck_dash

War Hero
The-Oracle3 said:
2_deck_dash said:
And what good is ranting and raving about it here going to do?

Yeah the Navy is shite these days, boo hoo. Best get used to it shippers cos it's only going to get smaller and shiter.
More serious debate.
I am serious.

I've got an idea, lets parade down Whitehall with giant banners saying ''more funding for the RN!'' ''Bring back the tot!'' etc. etc.

As much as I agree with your sentiment, my previous statement was sadly true. The Navy is shrinking and will continue to do so unless a military Junta overthrows the government or the Argies invade the Falklands again, by which time it will be too late and our National credibility will be lost forever.
 
2_deck_dash said:
And what good is ranting and raving about it here going to do?

Yeah the Navy is shite these days, boo hoo. Best get used to it shippers cos it's only going to get smaller and shiter.
this is the sort of ill-considered, childish comment I supposed RR was aiming-off.
 

2_deck_dash

War Hero
The-Oracle3 said:
2_deck_dash said:
And what good is ranting and raving about it here going to do?

Yeah the Navy is shite these days, boo hoo. Best get used to it shippers cos it's only going to get smaller and shiter.
this is the sort of ill-considered, childish comment I supposed RR was aiming-off.
Ill considered? Possibly.

Childish? Maybe.

True? Definitely.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
The problem with a debate is that there has to be a difference of opinion and whilst it's an oft repeated observation from some quarters, most would agree that the proprtion of one Commodore or Admiral for every 288 RN personnel serving does indeed seem disproprtionate.
 

2_deck_dash

War Hero
The-Oracle3 said:
I was at The Naval Cliub a month or so ago when three Rear Admirals were present, with not one bearing a Campaign Medal. What experience can they possibly have?
Have you considered the possibility that they were Submariners?

Up until Herrick, the vast majority of campaign medals awarded to matelots consisted of gongs for going on deployment vaguely near a hot spot.

I've met matelots with chests full of medals who have done nothing more than get pissed in the Gulf for 6 months at a time. Likewise I know matelots with no medals at all who have been shot at by pirates and drug smugglers.

Herrick medals excused, having some spangly tin proves very little in the case of the modern RN.

Edited to add:

The-Oracle3 said:
What experience can they possibly have?
Er......they were Rear Admirals. I think it's fairly obvious from their senior rank, that they have some experience.
 
The-Oracle3 said:
Many complaints of trivia RR suffers. Let's have some serious debate . This will start the ball rolling.

Shall we compare the Indian Navy with ours as of June 2010? This "Third World" country had ,in commission ,170 vessels We had 87 with 5 not formally commissioned. Of that 87 some would barely qualify for a HMS cap tally.

We are desperately short of warships but over-endowed with Flag Officer's Gold Lace which makes it look as if we have sufficient
I was at The Naval Cliub a month or so ago when three Rear Admirals were present, with not one bearing a Campaign Medal. What experience can they possibly have?
Didn't you ask them? If not , why not.Surely they would be able to enter into a serious debate with you.
Perhaps they have heard of you and treat you with the disdain you accord.
 
Up until Herrick, the vast majority of campaign medals awarded to matelots consisted of gongs for going on deployment vaguely near a hot spot.

I've met matelots with chests full of medals who have done nothing more than get pissed in the Gulf for 6 months at a time. Likewise I know matelots with no medals at all who have been shot at by pirates and drug smugglers.

some experience.[/quote]

My old oppo is very proud of his GW1 medal for going round and round Cyprus on the Ark!
 

2_deck_dash

War Hero
cornishgolfer said:
Up until Herrick, the vast majority of campaign medals awarded to matelots consisted of gongs for going on deployment vaguely near a hot spot.

I've met matelots with chests full of medals who have done nothing more than get pissed in the Gulf for 6 months at a time. Likewise I know matelots with no medals at all who have been shot at by pirates and drug smugglers.

some experience.
My old oppo is very proud of his GW1 medal for going round and round Cyprus on the Ark!
My point exactly!

The best man at my wedding is well proud of his Iraq medal (not sure which one, it was pre Telic) which he got for pissing up in Dubai and Sallalah. :lol:
 
You dont often hear "serious debate" and "The-oracle3"in the same sentence :D

I googled "the oracle" and revealed that they are a "race of reptillian creatures" often referred to as"the next evolution of murlocs"
All becomes clear :lol:
 
As much as I agree about the need for a good balanced RN it will always come down to money and sadly in recent decades the cash has not been available in sufficient amounts to sustain what I would consider a fleet needed to defend this island nation for any protracted or meaningful campaign.

To add to the discussion we must NEVER forget that 90 percent (yes, 90%) of what we need as an island nation comes in by sea. We could of course survive on much less than that for a short while but not for long.

To have a chance of a balanced fleet we need to get down to the thorny issue of a Defence Review which has been discussed to death in the press and on these pages. With the MOD and the Foreign Office, not least other Gov Depts bickering, the chances of such a Review being conducted fairly and in the best interests of UK PLC are slim. If anyone doubts that then the recent decision that the MOD must fund the replacement for Trident, before a Defence Review was undertaken, shatters any such illusions.

....in my humble opinion of course!
 
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