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A new perspective of punishment

Topstop

War Hero
Passed-over_Loggie said:
Fair point: Luke 6.

27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them
which hate you,

28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them
which despitefully use you.

29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the
other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat
also.

30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh
away thy goods ask them not again.

31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them
likewise.

32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for
sinners also love those that love them.

33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have
ye? for sinners also do even the same.

34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank
have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for
nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the
children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the
evil.

A an aside; now we are in Jointeryville, is the old Naval custom of Bible references in signals still allowed?

Don`t fancy Shipman as my familly`s GP. How about you?
 

agrippa

Badgeman
Trooped_Again said:
sensibledunny said:
but it would work out cheaper for the taxpayer to just top them. why pay 60yrs food and accom for some murdering c**t. we are told all the time that prisons are overcrowded.

I know what you are saying, but as is proven in Italy, these guys see death as an 'Easy Out', but that's not punishment.

Don't bring back the Death Penalty (makes us as bad as the murderers) bring back the Penal Colonies, lovely little abandoned island somewhere (like Australia).

I live in Italy and the locals are just as threaders with the kiddie fiddlers and what not as British people. The prisons over here don't seem to have the same "gucci kit" as ours, so I'm told anyway, No sky, No playstations, No sitting about. They are quite happy for the lifers to do life as they get beasted for their whole sentence. The problem with death penalty is it turns someone else into a killer, someone has to flick the switch, inject the poison or do whatever. All the "I'LL DO IT!" brigade have probably never had to look through the SUSAT and watch someone not get up again. If they had they wouldn't be so keen on taking part in the whole grissly affair. Just my thoughts anyway.
 
I'd happily have had Shipman as my personal GP, though I'd prefer to be offered the choice when to be topped and by what means. I personally am in favour of voluntary euthanasia but opposed to the death penalty. For those who advocate involuntary euthanasia (ie. murder) of paedophiles, just remember that there was a lot of controversy in the Netherlands when a recidivist paedophile sought and was given euthanasia to evade being punished for a recent spate of offences. His victims felt they had been cheated. If you have been a victim of sexual abuse (as against merely being a parent of a victim) you are likely to feel cheated of justice if the offender faces exactly the same penalty for abusing one child as for abusing hundreds, because in effect you are diluting the punishment the more victims there are. With a prison sentence, the length reflects the number and seriousness of offences, broadly speaking - though in Britain, serial offenders still get proportionately much less severe sentences than first time offenders who have committed a single offence. Equally if the victim is female, the sentences are consistently less severe!

Euthanasia should be allowed for consenting adults for untreatable and unbearable chronic pain, untreatable chronic depression and serious terminal illnesses. Those who have chosen a religious lifestyle can simply refuse to participate, or have any right to euthanasia curbed by the law specifying that only those who registered as non-religious in the last Census are entitled. This would not violate their human rights as euthanasia violates God's law. For non-believers God's law is a human creation and therefore denying non-believers euthanasia on religious grounds imposes religious beliefs and the Crusader lifestyle upon us, which is what the House of Lords currently demands. As an increasingly militant atheist, very much radicalised by the actions and threats of the English Christian evangelical right - who I now refer to as Crusaders because that is precisely what they are in the political sense - I find this increasingly unacceptable when the State has made so many compromises to accommodate others' religious beliefs. If they believe in the right to life, which is their argument against voluntary euthanasia, it should be universal. Where they demand, imply or make death threats against those they disapprove of, they, like non-Crusaders should be liable to prosecution for incitement - not as at present where they cannot apparently be prosecuted unless they make an actual attempt! Odd then that when Muslims do the same, they face imprisonment.
 
^^
What he said

Though I do have reservations, Reading our local press, the same names of the same family, are in every year for the past forty years

Grandad, dad, son, grandson, year upon year all the same scum
No doubt if I knew how to research it it would be great grandad great great grandad ETC
Where a good topping in 1840 would have exterminated the scum and saved many people the aggravation of the scum

So though punishment makes the wrongdoer suffer, and a good thing to.
Termination would cleanse the family and save lots of future people the heartache of burgalry robbery and assault
Maybe ten years jail then terminate without being allowed to breed before hand
(Oh forgot about private rooms for family harmony to long term prisoners damn)
 
agrippa said:
Trooped_Again said:
sensibledunny said:
but it would work out cheaper for the taxpayer to just top them. why pay 60yrs food and accom for some murdering c**t. we are told all the time that prisons are overcrowded.

I know what you are saying, but as is proven in Italy, these guys see death as an 'Easy Out', but that's not punishment.

Don't bring back the Death Penalty (makes us as bad as the murderers) bring back the Penal Colonies, lovely little abandoned island somewhere (like Australia).

I live in Italy and the locals are just as threaders with the kiddie fiddlers and what not as British people. The prisons over here don't seem to have the same "gucci kit" as ours, so I'm told anyway, No sky, No playstations, No sitting about. They are quite happy for the lifers to do life as they get beasted for their whole sentence. The problem with death penalty is it turns someone else into a killer, someone has to flick the switch, inject the poison or do whatever. All the "I'LL DO IT!" brigade have probably never had to look through the SUSAT and watch someone not get up again. If they had they wouldn't be so keen on taking part in the whole grissly affair. Just my thoughts anyway.

As regards the flicking the switch ----if the person on the end of the cable connections is a convicted/confessed criminal /Killer then it would be the same as you quote 'looking through a SUSAT' gunsight.
Biggest difference being that the SUSAT target was possibly trying to do you some grevious damage if you hadn't dropped them.
In both cases it could be construed as self defence!!

As for our places of correction -----------they should have more centres like the Sheriff in one of the Texan?? Counties. Prisoners live in tents and no TV etc etc. Food is basic --- he quotes that no-one has ever been back for 'seconds 'since the place was erected!!

:nemo: :nemo:
 
Greenie said:
As for our places of correction -----------they should have more centres like the Sheriff in one of the Texan?? Counties. Prisoners live in tents and no TV etc etc. Food is basic --- he quotes that no-one has ever been back for 'seconds 'since the place was erected!!

:nemo: :nemo:

Now is that because they don't do the crime again or because they take extra care about not being caught, or the sherrif may be good a punishment but is piss poor at catching them again.
 

agrippa

Badgeman
I’m not convinced on the self defence point of view on the behalf of the executioner / rules of engagement thing. I’ve seen enough death and despair in the world that I would not wish it on anyone. Though I do like the point on correctional facilities. In some parts of the world, there is a thin line between proper punishment and improper punishment. Parts of Djibouti the prisoners don’t get fed and if their family don’t bring scran in for them then they have to “please the guards†for food, not convinced this is right. However in parts of America, as you have said, they get the basic diet which has been balanced by a nutritionist so they get the right amount of energy to complete the tasks that they have been set, repairing roads, cleaning sewers whatever menial task the state sees fit. The bleeding heart pinkos in this country would never let something like that happen over here. It was suggested that people on community service washing chewing gum of the streets or painting fences should wear bright orange jump suits so they would be recognised as being people under punishment, this was poo poo’ed by do gooders who give too much protection to the guilty. It may seem a conflict of my morals to quite happily watch people fill in potholes in the rain wearing orange jump suits, while balk at the idea of the death penalty but the human mind is a fickle thing!! Again just my thoughts.
Gripps
 
Always_a_Civvy said:
Gott ist tot! (Nietzsche, Also sprach Zarathustra)

Gott ist tot nicht; Gott ist ein Gerucht! (PoL, RumRation)

Back to Thread: the basic point is do we slam people up to punish them or reform them? If it's to reform them, there has to be some form of reward. If it's to punish them, though, it seems reasonable not to go out of one's way to make it pleasant. I suspect that it's a mixture of the 2 in negotiable proportions. Arguably, assisted death would be a reward if requested and deserved.
 

hobbit

War Hero
To expand on the subject of crime this link has some interesting material in relation to crime for those interested


"Most current efforts to fight crime focus on sociological approaches: counseling and rehabilitation for offenders, tougher laws intended to discourage criminal acts, and better parenting and better education to prevent at-risk children from becoming delinquents and criminals.

These well-intentioned approaches have one thing in common: they frequently fail. Why? Because they fail to acknowledge that many criminals suffer from brain malfunctions which prevent them from benefiting from sociological or psychological interventions. Research shows that chronic offenders exhibit brain dysfunction leading to extreme "dyslogic." Many exhibit a lack of insight and foresight, a lack of empathy for animals and people, a low anger threshold, poor abstract thinking and social skills, a lack of fear and remorse, impulsivity, and an inability to realize the consequences of their actions or to learn from experience.

The more we learn about the brain dysfunction that underlies much delinquency and criminality, the more successful we will be in truly rehabilitating offenders, and preventing "at risk" children from turning to lives of crime. The purpose of Crime Times is to foster this effort by reporting state-of-the-art worldwide research on the causes and treatment of aberrant behavior. Topics addressed by Crime Times include:


ADHD, aggression, conduct disorder, antisocial behavior, delinquency, impulsivity, violence, and psychopathy.
The effects of imbalances of neurotransmitters and hormones, such as serotonin, thyroid, and testosterone.
Head injuries and structural abnormalities of the brain.
Genetics, premature birth, low birthweight, and perinatal trauma.
Food and chemical sensitivities.
Environmental contaminants such as lead, manganese, mercury, and pesticides.
Maternal smoking, alcohol and drug abuse.
Medical and nutritional interventions.
New books and information from leading experts.
There is much to report, for we are all living in "crime times" but we are also living in a time of hope, when medical and scientific discoveries offer us powerful new tools to effectively prevent or treat the true causes of aberrant, delinquent, and criminal behavior."

http://www.autismwebsite.com/crimetimes/contents.htm
 
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