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A Naval Base"Review", a Euphemism for Closure

stumpy said:
Yes, but a lot of naval work still went on there.

I know how we can save the defence budget... by making cuts elsewhere.

Sell of the Houses of Parliament. Would make a lovely hotel. Build a new parliament on the outskirts of Birmingham, but don't fund it properly so they have to share rooms. Would save a fortune in housing costs for MPs. Then slash MPs pensions. Also scrape their allowances to buy property, and say, give them a loan of £8,500 instead. Only pay enough travel to go home every couple of weekends. Give cabinet ministers old landrovers and say that they will be safe from terrorists. Mmmm.

Or... instead of moving them to Birmingham, put them up in an old MOD base. Let them share accommodation, and keep saying, "We were going to build all new blocks, but the government has only funded enough for half of you."

;)

Stumpy,

Can we have a seperate thread on this in Diamond Lil's and a Poll please! Just copy the whole lot to a new thread. :p

Steve.
 
Early Day Motion

EDM 2755

FUTURE OF PORTSMOUTH NAVAL BASE

16.10.2006

McCarthy-Fry, Sarah (3 signatures)

Hancock, Mike
Viggers, Peter

That this House calls upon the Government to safeguard the future of Portsmouth Naval Base as a homeport for the majority of the Royal Navy's surface fleet and as a major centre for warship maintenance, repairs and refits; further calls for confirmation of Portsmouth as homeport for new aircraft carriers and Type 45 destroyers; notes that Portsmouth has been the centre for naval shipbuilding since 1194 and that Admiral Nelson set sail from the city in 1805 prior to the Battle of Trafalgar, Britain’s greatest naval victory; and believes that it makes economic sense for Portsmouth to remain a vibrant naval base as a driver for the south east Hampshire economy, and as the most cost effective solution to the Ministry of Defence's warship support needs.
 

dt018a9667

War Hero
Not_a_boffin said:
Hig

I know Eagle & Ark were Guz, but the new ones ARE bigger, (by about 100 foot of length, 50 ft of overall beam and a good 8ft on draught. The QHM have also put a "limit" on what they're comfortable with and believe it or not, it's LESS than Eagle / Ark. 9 & 10 docks can't be used as they are the Trident refit & standy docks and the CVF sponsons are too wide for them.

Guz is on a very sticky wicket as far as SurFlot refits go, the refit complex is too small and won't take T45, leaving 8 dock as the only option and the shenanigans to get ammunitioned ships berthed mixed in with boats and the NRC have to be seen to be believed.

Have to tell you that the present sub in ten dock will be the last the whole of north lock/waterfront operations is being moved elsewhere. And ten dock returned to a big ship dock.
 

Not_a_boffin

War Hero
What - after the hundreds of millions spent on meeting the nuclear safety case obligations? I can see one way and one way only that would work and it would involve bomber & SSN refit activity moving to Cumbria.......IF and its a big if - SubCo comes off.
 

dt018a9667

War Hero
Not_a_boffin said:
What - after the hundreds of millions spent on meeting the nuclear safety case obligations? I can see one way and one way only that would work and it would involve bomber & SSN refit activity moving to Cumbria.......IF and its a big if - SubCo comes off.


No ten dock (also known as north lock locally) that is the big one, I am talking about not nine dock that houses our brethren on the bombers.
 

Not_a_boffin

War Hero
Thought ten was the "reserve" bomber dock. Oh well, it'll fit LPH / LPD / CVS. Won't take CVF if we ever get them though.....
 

slim

War Hero
From what I remember of the old Ark Royal we frequently had difficulties entering Plymouth when the winds were strong.
Portsmouth may be the better option for larger carriers
 

dt018a9667

War Hero
Not_a_boffin said:
Thought ten was the "reserve" bomber dock. Oh well, it'll fit LPH / LPD / CVS. Won't take CVF if we ever get them though.....



From what we were told another dock was the reserve for the S and T boats just remember the blocks and their positions in ten dock.
Also other things are happening in the Naval Base. I think you should watch this space as to further developments. http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.3109

Have to be careful here as we may be getting into things that should be left at a safe distance.
 

Not_a_boffin

War Hero
If you're talking of the plans for South Yard, that'll empty WML quite happily, but would still leave the problem of berthing ammunitioned DD/FF around Defiance and the SSN wharves. Would still struggle to fit the T45s etc alongside.
 

DingDong

Lantern Swinger
Early Day Motion

EDM 2755

FUTURE OF PORTSMOUTH NAVAL BASE

16.10.2006

McCarthy-Fry, Sarah (3 signatures)

Hancock, Mike
Viggers, Peter

That this House calls upon the Government to safeguard the future of Portsmouth Naval Base as a homeport for the majority of the Royal Navy's surface fleet and as a major centre for warship maintenance, repairs and refits; further calls for confirmation of Portsmouth as homeport for new aircraft carriers and Type 45 destroyers; notes that Portsmouth has been the centre for naval shipbuilding since 1194 and that Admiral Nelson set sail from the city in 1805 prior to the Battle of Trafalgar, Britain’s greatest naval victory; and believes that it makes economic sense for Portsmouth to remain a vibrant naval base as a driver for the south east Hampshire economy, and as the most cost effective solution to the Ministry of Defence's warship support needs.

CIVVY - Thanks for posting the above. However, as it is relatively easy for a minor league MP to table such a motion, in reality it means nothing to us. Sarah Macarthy-Fry will undoubtedly does this kind of thing in order to shore up her position. Having commented in the press that "the decision to close one of the Naval dockyards has been on the back burner for some time" she will possibly lose her seat in the next election which could be as close as 2008.

What we need to focus on here are two seperate strands:

1. Britain's Armed forces have been involved in high tempo operations for the better part of a decade in various places around the world. The PM is happy to send us to war, but when Gordon tells him that the bill needs to be paid for, the money comes out of the defence budget in the form of rationalisation, cutbacks, mothballing etc etc we all know the jargon.


2. The RN have lost 4 T42s (admitedly at the end of their service lives) 3 T23s each between 10-12 yrs old, about a dozen MCMVS and the ability to defend the fleet whilst in open ocean. T45 is late by some considerable margin and, is underequipped; CVF is looking doubtful. The Army have faced an amalgamation of regiments, paring down of heavy equipment, botched procurement programmes for Apache, SF Chinooks and a lack of supply chains to deliver equipment to the front line ultimately leading to loss of life. It is debateable what the RAF have lost.


Gordon Brown has launched his bid to succeed Tony Blair, but as the man who holds the purse strings, the above demonstrate that he does not have the fundamentail understanding as to how the armed forces function, nor how they need sustaining and therefore confirmed that he is not the right man for the job. We all agree that hospitals, policing, good schools and a strong economy are essential, however defence is equally as important.

One of the key pillars of Britains Defence is the protection of the Homeland and her dependencies.

I ask you all, whether you think it likely or not, if we had to retake the Falklands, could we do it? Surely this is the acid test of GREAT BRITAIN's armed forces.

We would have to be barking mad to think that America would help us like they did the last time. We have to be crazy to think that the rest of Europe would pitch in. We would have to be blind to think that the Argies haven't learnt the lessons of their last expedition.

We can debate and rant all we want over the closure of dockyards, but the bigger picture is much worse. what is most dispicable about all of this, no matter what the NBCs put forward in terms of justification for survival, Politicians will believe what they want to believe and there isn't much we can do.
 

SILVER_FOX

War Hero
An interesting and understandably emotive thread. Whilst we can argue the toss about which base is most likely to be closed, the reality is that one of them will and it is unlikely that we can influence it.

I agree with an earlier point about our senior officers getting gongs for saving a few more million pounds from the defence budget but in fairness to them, they are under instruction and some considerable pressure to do this. Realistically what can they do about it anyway? Short of mass resignations, I suspect they can do very little except damage limitation. It has been obvious for some time that this government is inept and particularly doesn’t care for the Armed Forces. We’re there to be abused by being thrown into wars and trouble spots all over the world whilst they take away our funding / ability to issue and maintain the level of kit and equipment necessary to do the job.

Could we fight and win another Falklands war? Reality check! Given our current manning and commitments there is absolutely no way we could unless we opt for a nuclear strike or drop the suggestion of WMD being located in Argentina.

In any case, the way things are going we will probably be able to fit the entire Navy in Falmouth in about 15 years.

SF
 
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