A Naval Base"Review", a Euphemism for Closure

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Booty_Cdt_Sgt, Sep 18, 2006.

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  1. The MOD announces that review into Naval Bases will begin, am I the only one that think that this is another way of saying Closure/Privatisation?

    How can the Navy operate out of just two bases, and which one will go?

    Doubtful to be a Scots base as Labour are trying to cling to their support up there, but you cannot close either Pompey or Guzz.

    How can they justify shrinking the fleet further and further.

    http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/D...nceSecretaryAnnouncesReviewOfUkNavalBases.htm
     
  2. CLOSE as much as possible lets have more hospitals ????
     
  3. If I remember rightly, Pompey was earmarked for closure in the early eighties. The Falklands war saved it.

    It's one of the reasons they have diversified into the heritage industry. It's unwise to have all your irons in the same fire.
     
  4. Hmm, let me see . . Cynical mode on. :p

    Rosyth - although officially closed is in Gordon Brown's constituency

    Faslane - the PM and his sidekick, together with much of the cabinet are Scots

    That leaves Devonport and Portsmouth.

    Now, bear in mind that the Government are attempting to move as many Civil Service jobs out of the South East.

    I know which Naval Base I'd have my money on for closure!
     
  5. Levers_Aligned

    Levers_Aligned War Hero Moderator

    Okay. Here's my POV.

    There is a 'review' of sorts, and the unions are well aware of it. Being as the carrier and 42 squadrons are kinda drying up, and the Chileans are snapping up the 23s, see if you can guess what's happening.

    The Dreadnought Paper, is Pompey's justification study into why it should stay open as a Naval Base. When you consider the carriers are refitting in Babcock Rosyth and Gordon is the MP for Dunfirmline East (not west, which is another Labour MP) and certain pledges are in consideration for the LPD ships ... coupled with the fact that the DML biult (and therfore Halliburton-owned) 9 dock has been extensively refitted in Guzz as the refuelling location for the subs, and that Faslane can never shut as long as we have a strategic deterrent, somehow you could put anything ostentatious in the paper yet it still wouldn't be enough. The selling of Fountain Lake Jetty is merely a softener. The core yard workforce has been and will continue to be pared down to **** all. Eventuall it will become a wholly commercial venture with a nautical theme park bolted on to it.

    And let's not even talk of a nearby large engineering establishment upping sticks and moving into pongo land before 2012.

    Levers
     
  6. There has been a recent poll (in the Scotsman last week I recall) wghich indicated growing support for Scottish independance. In view of this it would be logical to close a Scottish base. Of course what will happen is they will probably close BOTH Pompey & Guzz! I'm surprised we are not seeking to rent naval bases from Libya or Iran. I'm sure both could offer good value deals to the British taxpayer. :roll:
     
  7. Dunfermline West is now Lib Dem, as Labour got a spanking in a by election earliier this year. Normally you could pin a red rosette on a monkey, and it would've been voted in, but the worms finally turned.

    Babcock Rosyth have been promised the new carriers, but if you notice, no date has been set.
    At the moment Babcock seem to paying all the workers off, so it begs the question as to whether the skilled workers to do the work will actually be there.
    As to this independance question, the SNP seem to think a navy based on the Norwegian model, based in Faslane and being refitted in Rosyth would suit everybody.

    What a shower of tossers.
    No matter what flavour!
     
  8. Think you'll find that the Scottish 'independance' won't include any defence changes --Norwegian style or otherwise :lol: :lol:


    Scotland is a Sovereign state within the United Kingdom --the Queen is still head of state. The Scots 'parliament ' members are sworn in to honour the Queen.

    As for defence --well
    they closed Chatham and just about all of the North Sea bases for the simple reason they became untenable due to the exit area's becoming easily blocked --Rosyth is fairly easily defended so it stayed as was.

    Portsmouth although traditionaly a RN port is becoming less and less accessable. Its been getting 'run down ' for decades with bases closing and facilities moving elsewhere . The Navy is getting smaller aswell.

    Guzz is established at the moment with lots of new investment
    Faslane is really getting money spent on it -especially accommodation

    So we'll see
     
  9. Levers_Aligned

    Levers_Aligned War Hero Moderator

    Apols for my oversight. She was one of Gordon's inner circle, however.

    They laid off hundreds after the Tories decided that the ******* great big hold dug behind Lowden Building wasn't going to be the new nuke refuelling pen back in 1994. That didn't stop the whole yard regenerating and within ten years employing half as many workers with the new BES outfit.

    They would, wouldn't they?

    Levers
     
  10. Gents please come down to Devonport the story is the same, .don`t these ******* understand?
    Are we not an island? (I.e. we are surrounded by water) I think for that you need a navy!!! For protection.
    One group springs to mind at once. The civil service (MOD) being the likely culprits me thinks if their past records are anything are to go by.
     
  11. They'd never vote for it! I believe it has been established that the entire GDP of an independant Scotland wouldn't even pay their current dole bill.
     
  12. The Naval Base Review will look at the amount of support supplied to the fleet. That doesn't mean closing bases. It means looking at the support and repair facilities afforded by the commercial providers. This review has to be taken as part of the overall UK Defence Industrial Strategy. That is to say that the UK Defence Industrial Base (not just dockyards) has to balance profitability, long term sustainability AND provide UK Defence with the equipment and support it needs.

    The question here is not whether we need 3 bases, it is whether we need 3 private firms competeing for dwindling MOD contracts.

    It is clear to me, (as an Engineer who has stood by a few refits), that our support base is not balanced with the ships it serves.
     
  13. An where does that stand with secret government reports that indicate that Scotland is a net contributor to Gordons hip pocket. Why do you think Maggie did not dump Scotland all those years ago when she was getting rid of anything that cost the government money? Financially England needs Scotland more than Scotland needs England.

    Peter
     
  14. Monsieur Clouseau has the right idea methinks, but it might not be as obvious as everyone thinks. It'll be an "interesting" outcome whatever happens. Just have the horrible suspicion it'll end up as usual making conclusions on the wrong assumptions.

    Faslane will probably stay as is, if only because of the bomber infrastructure, which leaves a straight Pompey vs Guz fight. You might think it's a re-run of the Nott review of 81, but hold some horses here.

    Pompey plus points : big enough jetties to take CVF, big enough jetties to take T45, only UHAF certified to handle Aster. Proximity to Coll / Sultan, VT/BAe presence (marginal plus point!) and plenty of large docks
    Pompey negatives : Needs dredging, lots of historic buildings

    Guz positives : Nuclear refit facilities, proximity to exercise areas, proximity to Raleigh, amphibs in proximity to Royals

    Guz negatives : P1ss poor navigable approach (CVF will never get up there and Smeaton Pass is a limiting factor), very difficult to berth ammunitioned ships near Defiance / SSN, Frigate refit complex too small for T45 (and FSC if we ever get it), only one large dock usable for surface ships

    Might be a closer run thing than people think, inlcuding the possibility that all surface ship refit work goes to Pompey, leaving Guz with Subs only.
     
  15. I think you'll keep the 3 bases but the front line supprt provided by DML, for example, would be lost. This would mean surface ship refits/FTSPs/DDs only in Pompey.......

    Or it could be the other way round.......
     
  16. As ever it is a cost cutting excercise and there will be a shuffle and cuts but no closures especially after the Devonport/Rosyth fiasco which still comes back to bite the MOD from time to time. At the same time I have a suspicion that with Scottish Parliament elections next year it is a Labour/MOD ploy to create a scare over Faslane and the associated jobs there. Just watch for the build up to an announcement that Labour has saved Faslane just beofre the election.

    Peter
     
  17. Do we need 3 bases? If one had to close which one would you choose?

    Surely one base on it's own could manage to look after our fleet now that it has been reduced so much (although that would be tactically daft).
     
  18. Where have we just spent the most money modernising ?
    That's normally a sure sign of imminent closure.


    Some people call me an old cynic. I like to think I'm a mature realist !?
     
  19. Mercury, Vernon, Daedalus, Dryad - gone. Dolphin - resurrected as an accommodation centre, but cannot survive. Haslar gone, all bar the shouting. Sultan - rumoured to be going in the not too distant future.

    Collingrad - developed to the nines, so an attractive purchase for somebody, no doubt.

    Faslane won't be closed, but because of what is based there, not the current Scots hue of the government. Rosyth could cope with the carriers and T45s, so a possibility because of the current Scots hue etc. Guzz would sink into the abyss without the RN, so that's unlikely.

    Sorry, Portsmouth - you have most of the history and will survive as a tourist centre, so you are the weakest link - goodbye!
     

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