A message to the old and bold

Discussion in 'The Gash Barge' started by Montigny_La_Palisse, Sep 1, 2009.

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  1. Every now and then this place goes through stages. At the moment it would appear that we have once again found ourselves rooted in a modern Navy slagging stage. Apparently we are all molly-coddled bags of sh1t with no regard for Naval History, a pathetic fleet of incapable ships and perhaps worst of all, females amidst the ranks. Apparently, many are glad they don't serve in today's Navy as it's a disgrace, well fellas, I'm as delighted that you've left as you are.

    The fleet is smaller and the reach and deployments smaller. However I think you'll find that we are busier and the times between conflict shorter. We are even finding ourselves drafted to a conflict in a land-locked country. There are less of us but our commitments aren't any smaller, many have never had a shore draft in their careers.

    We know we are being short changed at the moment due to pressing concerns in Afghanistan and the cost that involves but that is not our fault, and we still meet all our commitments and are more than capable of doing what is asked if necessary. There is no doubt that we are, although small, the best Navy in the world personnel wise. FACT.

    We have it easy do we? Well why not move with the times? We moved from sail to steam didn't we? We're hardly going to continue in the dark ages. Trust me, there is still plenty of adversity ashore and afloat that would keep you happy.

    Bags of shit? So our silks and cap tallies aren't perfect and we don't have bow waves in our caps. Good, uniformity is smart. Every sailor used to like looking a little bit different, cap on the back of the head, cap tally around the side, tab in mouth smart? No it wasn't. We tend to iron things now to which helps.

    And no regard for Naval History or those that have gone before us? Absolutely not true, all the young lads and lasses know who Jack Cornwell VC is and have the utmost respect for him, it's just we don't particularly care about some pissed up cold war warrior who spent his 22 painting the side of a cruiser in Honky Fid.

    I know it's entertaining and easy to slag off our Navy, and claim that yours was better, but it's just not true. Yes your Navy was vast, but the quality of people is as good, if not better (I would suggest better) than it has always been. We do what we can with what we've got and do it well.

    As for the girls, I'll say this only once. They are as capable as us whether you like it or not, in the ops room they are often better. And I know lads who can't get a bollard strop and slip out of the quarter deck locker on a 23 on their own, yet I've seen a female do it so the physical aspect is bollocks as well.

    And whilst your polishing your single LSGC medal. Take a look at the 5 foot 2 girls walking around with Bosnia, Telic, GSM Iraq and Herrick gongs. Useless and have no right do they? Yeah cheers.

    Jealous? I thought you might be.
  2. Wow MLP, we got you hook line and sinker.
  3. Monty
    These comparisons between old and new navy have been going on since before Nelson was born.
    The size that the RN has been reduced to distresses many of us old farts.
    I joined in 63 and by the time I left in 05 the RN had been decimated, my last ship Manchester was a new Type 42 and is still in service (just). We empathise with you and would love you to have the newer more modern ships that you deserve.
    As for uniform, well the old uniform was ultra smart until you were pissed and bits started to come away, but in all honesty the old uniform could have been improved to keep the styling but remove the awkward method of fitting the collar and silk. Then you would be able to look smart even when pissed.
    Women at sea, not my choice and I'm pleased I didn't serve with them, that said they do seem to be doing the job well and thats good enough for me.
    Accommodation, I battled for years trying to get shore side accommodation improved, POs four to a mess in many shore establishments when crab and army corporals were in single cabins. The new slam accommodation to me is just what the RN needed.
    At sea better accommodation is also to be applauded. 8)
    The modern RN has got to progress, we old farts understand that, we do not envy you though as we think back to all the good runs in foreign ports that we used to get in places the modern sailor will never visit except on holiday at his/her own expense.
    Finally in twenty years time what will tomorrows old salts be posting on RR :p
  4. Maxi, I know some are looking for a bight, but I also know that there is true vitriol in some comments.

    And yes Slim, you're right, this will always happen. As a 4th generation Matelot I know all about the slagging down the years. It does get extremely tiring though.
  5. I thought the 'Old Navy' finished with the introduction of steam... or was it when they stopped wearing black hats... or scrapped the last battleship... or ended the tot... or combined the badges on each arm... or ceased issuing Blue Liners... or closed down Tamar... or first sent females to sea?

    As the 3-badge AB said gloomily while emptying his pockets after a particularly heavy run ashore, "The only constant is change."
  6. Equally there have been some pretty vitriolic attacks on the old farts too, before your time it was suggested that we shouldn't be allowed on the site at all because we were always talking about the G Spot etc.

    It is a fact of life on line you get some who just post because they want to be nasty, some whose medication is out of balance like Norman etc etc. This place is no different to almost all the others.

    ps I always had you down as one of the old farts too, not a young thraster as you suggest.
  7. And whilst your polishing your single LSGC medal. Take a look at the 5 foot 2 girls walking around with Bosnia, Telic, GSM Iraq and Herrick gongs. Useless and have no right do they? Yeah cheers

    Why do you go on about all these gongs,?,when i was in Spain one of our neighbours was an ex Pongo chef,he had a ferkin breast full of bragrags,but as he said "he was in the cookhouse but he was there",i asked him if he ever saw action and he started laughing and said NO i was there and thats it,now dont go throwing ya teddys out of the pram old lad but gongs can somtimes be a little missinterperated,i have a few of which i keep to myself,(the kids hang them on the chrissy tree) and thats the way it is,i never ever wear them cos i dont want other old ferkers coming up to me and telling sea storys about how they got theres and where did i get my`n,and NO its not only LSGC,

    Ps Jealous,absolutly not
  8. I'll make it a little easier for you to understand then, my point is that there are many posts on here berating how shite the Jack or Jenny of today is when they have crammed more into 6 years than their detractors have in 22. It has fcuk all to do with medals, however these people are more than earning their keep and their right to say they are part of an excellent RN.

    So they have velcro silks, who fcuking cares? They perform every time.
  9. Well address the issue with those that make the comments and stop generalising, because I get fcuked off with both sides.

    I have the equivalent of three medal if you count "Bars" besides United Nation doofers. So fcukin what.
    Landing in a hot place does not a hero make as you keep telling the Old Gits.
    When did you go on the front line except with a teddy bear.
    Ask a little of what did happen in this cold war navy you keep screaming about but know fcuk all about.
    I never once saw you covered in glass with snot and blood around after a terrorist attack in Aden.
    Being there prepared to fight is the criteria that gets my vote not what YOU or I did personally.
    Tell the ones that upset you ,don't slag us all off.
  10. I'll make it a little easier for you to understand then, my point is that there are many posts on here berating how shite the Jack or Jenny of today is when they have crammed more into 6 years than their detractors have in 22. It has fcuk all to do with medals, however these people are more than earning their keep and their right to say they are part of an excellent RN.

    So they have velcro silks, who fcuking cares? They perform every time.

    Your point is taken as is the sarcasm about making it easier to understand :wink: ,i think you will find that i have never ever slagged orf the modern day jack/jenny,in fact i think i have even said that i admire them for being a part of the modern RN,i could never do it myself because of the way things were ( sorry to say it ) in the good/bad old days,its an excellent RN in your eyes and thats ok but for quite a few of the old scrouts on here (myself included) its not what i would have wanted,and to be honest what the ferk does it matter if they have velcro silks,no thats right it doesnt matter in fact i bet its easier to put that frikin square rig on, :D
  11. For the love of Richard Beckinsale.

    This is not a personal attack at anyone, I am addressing the balance. I am also using examples to illustrate points.

    I respect all hat has gone before as the RN is built on tradition and history, we wouldn't be as capable as we are without learning from the past and for that we thank the Matelots that have gone before us.

    Brilliantly, this has brought out the ire in some of you, excellent. As I said to Chris, the gongs point is just one to point out how active todays guys are, no 3 year draft to Drake buffers party for them, as for me? I have absolutely no need to talk of my credentials or service history, firstly because I'm not arsed what anyone thinks, and secondly it has no relevance to this thread.

    We are as protective and as proud of our Navy as you are of yours, don't expect us to take the dismissive comments lying down.

    And Chris, you'll be pleased to know the lshing up and swordplay continues. :wink:
  12. Montigny I respect your viewpoint and the measured way you have expressed it.

    As for me, I don't think I have ever disparaged the modern RN, in fact I dearly wish I could still be serving alongside the fine young people who are today's Navy. The first thing I missed after I left was the humour and the enthusiasm; civilians are boring, idle feckers!

    I have never expressed dismay at females at sea. Being a product of the RN Medical Service I was trained with women, served with and under women (no sex jokes please) and I married a serving female.

    As a Junior Rate I lived in dormitory accommodation with endless rows of bed/locker, bed/locker, bed/locker etc. and ate shite food because some civilian bastard was committing fraud. Granted, at sea we did not fight many wars, just the luck of the draw; but we would have if we had been told to.

    As for this website, I take part because it keeps me up to speed with what is the modern RN and, to tell the truth, I bloody well miss the Service, more than I would admit to my civilian friends. :cry: I also give some of my pension to keep the site going, so I feel I am entitled, just occasionally, to throw in my tuppenceworth.
  13. Monty albeit I totally agree with quite a lot of what you have said I also disagree in equal amounts of which you have said.
    Yes the Services and in particular the Royal Navy has moved on and I guess all for the best, they got it wrong with some of the ships especially in the 80s but we learn from our mistakes.
    Krapp Monty, sorry but we used to use irons to, albeit it was every matelotes dream to have a bent hat and a faded blue collar when it was needed Jack did look smart. I have to admit I am not in favour of the new mismash uniform for Jack and even more less impressed with 'Jenny's' uniform they look awful. Why every did they do away with the old Wrens uniform (OK so they aren't Wrens anymore but is that a reason to dress them like a bag of pooh?)
    Yes Monty our Navy was vast but then again there were more stations to fill that was the nature of the beast. As we lost places like Gib, Malta, Singas, Honkey Kong Bermuda, Simons Town, Australia yes we had boats out there, etc etc so the fleets depleted and finally disappeared. Please remember not only was there fleets out there in those ports but there were maintained shore bases and support bases for the ships operating in those areas.
    I'm sure that the guys and gals in the RN these days are as good as they were in the 'old and bold' times but frankly what was potrayed on the few episodes of the LAST Warship documentary I saw made me believe that there were a fe wpeople who were not taking it seriously. Now thats them 'suits' fault they should have made sure that that was being screened was of a quality such that it was good PR.
    Totally agree with you 'Slim' I never understood as a Senior Rate in a RAF NCOs mess during the Firemans strike in 78 we lived one to a cabin but back in some Pussers establishment we were holed up four to a cabin. Yes lots of whats going on IS only for the good of the RN and I'm for it.
    As for spending 22 years painting the side of a Cruiser in Honky Fid for the duration. No never happened Suzy side party did that!!!
    OK so you sport medals other than LSGC medal you probably deserve them I have no idea. We had our 'hairy moments' Aden withdrawal was one of them there for about a month pulling the Army and the RAF out of Aden not as drastic as Iraq agreed but we were shot at. We had a couple of nasty moments with a Portugese gun boat of Beira who wanted to take a type 12 frigate on then there was the Falklands. So please Monty albeit I'm with you us old and boldies have a few tales to tell.
  14. Mate, you have every right to, I'm just tired of hearing how our people are woeful from those who may have forgotten that there was the occasional waste of eights back then too. I have spoken to some Newbies on here and young Matelots who feel the respect they have for the old and bold is not reciprocated. I find that very sad.
  15. Yes indeed, much has changed I am sure...now we have poofs & pussy at sea...yes, nothing halts the march of progress....a whole new meaning to 'call the hands'.....hands off ??? (who's), on socks... :D 8)
  16. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Yeah, that's exactly what goes on on board... I spend every walking hour finding lads and lasses together; had 40 people on Defaulters at XO's Table last week... 8O :roll: :sleepy2:
  17. Quiet week for you last week then? :lol:
  18. You dont demand respect you earn it so I concur that some of the old hands on here do constantly disrespect the young.
    I would defend the young generation quite vigorously as I have met loads of young un's in my various jobs civvy side as well as having two kids of my own one who is serving. (A Female)
    Unfortunately you will know that shite attracts publicity, so the bad of anything is brought to attention before noble deeds.
    I am very sure that the youngsters of today are as competent at their job as we were in ours. The image of the after tot jack ,staggering pissed around the ship is untrue although the myth builders would portray it differently. It all makes good reading in dits, but I'm sure the likes of Lt Commander Forbes Robertson, and Captain Sanford would have had other ideas.( Not to mention a certain RPO Gregory) amongst others.
    We were proud of our capabilities, and Sea Cat was as big a joke to us as it seem to be to the lads now. We were flogging them to the Iranians in 1970 as anyone at whale Island then would testify.
    I have two Nephews in one of Her Majesties, and very proud to I am of them.
    No I do not like the Idea of women at sea, my generation were brought up protecting them, its not chauvinism, its in our fundamental makeup, as much abhorrent as meeting a child in the bush with an AK47, as my neighbours son did in sierra Leon. (Now there's a moral dilemma.)
    So I will now return to the noble art of dit spinning, take the piss out of many of you as I can, serving or otherwise, and hope that some of you on both sides of the age divide will start taking yourselves less seriously, as when your dead you will still only be rotten meat or ashes.
    If your the latter please beware of Australians.

    And would Monty shut up long enough to refresh my old brain with how to send the promised pennies to help these young shits who have been doing it for us. 8O :wink:
  19. witsend

    witsend War Hero Book Reviewer

  20. When I joined my first ship as a baby OM there were only a handful of OM's on board. We still pretty much had a compliment of old source branch AB's and Killicks down the mess. We still had an OPS department!

    I learned alot from the Old and Bold on board and learnt to respect those who been in far longer than I had. But as these Old and Bold fell away I noticed the those baby's come up weren't as respectful.

    Now I don't know what it is like now as I don't although not been out too long but long enough now to know.

    I still respect those who've served before me and I still respect those still serving.

    Unfortunately times change, it wasn't what I signed up for any longer and left as did many in my branch.

    I see both sides on here and I agree/disgree with both sides.

    I do think certain things have been lost due to changes but so many others have been gained. Most for the good of the Navy and some not so good.

    Some of these changes were brought on by powers above and some due to the way things in life have gone.

    I don't have many medals, I have the one. I swosh instead of clang, I'm proud of that one. I would do my time over again! I met some great people during my time, and I'm still in touch with many of them thanks to the medium known as facebook.

    I'm probably just rambling, but nothing will ever be the same as those who were before us. My brothers time was different and those before him was and so and so on. Strewth those in now will be saying the same about my time lol

    One thing I do agree with though respect is earnt both ways, I learnt to respect those old source branch eventually they showed me respect being once I earnt it. That's one lesson I took away from my time in the mob.

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