A Canuck's view on our Submarine Service

Read some of your article.
Amazed at the comment...............four Royal Naval Upholdr class diesel electric submarines surplus to requirement...............what???
It was a very sad a pointless way of the UK governments idea of trying to cut costs. And the novel lease lend with a view to purchase again another government idea to fool the populas this time it was the DoD trying to fool the Canadian public.
By the way is Lt Cdr Ric Rankin still around?
Interesting. I note the the submarine sceptics were using much the same arguments they used in Australia to stop acquisition of an Oberon replacement. Fortunately for us and the Canadians they did not get their way.
What is the manpower situation like in Canada? The article did not say much about it.
Just too bad it will have taken 6yrs for HMCS Chicoutimi to do a sea patrol, from leaving the UK in 2004 (Fire onboard incident) to coming out of extended refit in 2010.

These boats were leased starting in 1998, here it is 2008, at best 1 boat is available for training purposes and doing surveillance patrols at the same time, it's a huuuuge coastline.

Manpower is at critical levels and the new buzzword in Ottawa is "ice breaking" capabilities for which the Victoria class is not suited.

Canadian Government may be considering new submarines
The Canadian Press ^ | Oct 9,2007 | Murray Brewster

Posted on October 10, 2007 3:08:10 PM by sukhoi-30mki

Tories may be considering new submarines, say military sources

By Murray Brewster, The Canadian Press

OTTAWA - The defence minister's office recently requested a briefing on how long it would take to introduce new submarines - a move that could set the stage for the replacement of the troubled Victoria-class boats, defence sources have told The Canadian Press.

At the same time, a key refit contract involving the compressed-air system aboard HMCS Victoria has been put on hold, an upgrade which left incomplete would mean the warship would not be able to fire torpedoes.

Both actions raise questions about the future of the four glitch-plagued submarines that were purchased from Britain in 1998 under the former Liberal government and have yet to reach full operational status.

In the briefing, which was reportedly delivered by senior officials last week to Peter MacKay's new deputy minister, the government was told it would take six years to bring new submarines completely up to snuff, starting from the moment of contract signing.

A second defence source said a more conservative estimate of the timeline would be up to eight years.

A spokesman for MacKay declined to give details of the briefing.

"The minister has no comment on the substance of briefings, which are often sensitive in nature," said Jay Paxton, the minister's press secretary.

"The minister does view these subs as an important strategic asset for Canada."

The conjecture comes at a time when the Harper government is casting around for ways to bolster the country's sovereignty over the Arctic. The issue of the Far North is expected to figure prominently in next week's throne speech.

The four Victoria-class submarines are incapable of operating under the ice and naval experts have recommended that they be installed with an air independent propulsion system, which would allow for up two weeks submerged operations in the Arctic.

But the refit program for the current submarine fleet has been fraught with delays. A couple of weeks ago, the navy revealed that the upgrades on HMCS Victoria will take almost a year longer than expected.

In addition, the navy last year put off upgrading and repairing fire damage aboard HMCS Chicoutimi until 2010. On its maiden voyage to Canada in October 2004, an electrical fire crippled the boat and left Lieut. Chris Saunders dead.

Almost from the beginning, the $897-million program to buy the 1980s-vintage, mothballed diesel electric boats from the Royal Navy faced intense public scrutiny - especially after a series of mechanical glitches that included leaks, hull dents and rust. Through it all, the Canadian navy has been steadfast, defending the boats as necessary piece of the country's maritime defence strategy.

But getting the submarines up to snuff has been chewing up the largest chunk of the navy's maintenance budget, according to reports released under access to information. And each of the boats will require a mid-life refit in order to keep them operating into the 2025 time frame - a project that was estimated in 2005 to be worth an additional $865 million.

Defence sources said there are questions now about whether the Conservatives are preparing to cut the government's losses and replace the troubled boats sooner, operating the Victoria-class until a new breed of conventional submarine can be acquired.

"You've got wonder to what's going on, especially with all of the emphasis on the Arctic," said one senior source who asked not to be identified.

Defence expert Ken Bowring, a former naval engineer, said it's clear the government is on a fact-finding mission, but it remains to be seen what comes out of it.

"The navy is working hard to get the Victoria-class operational because they've got the boats, they want to do something with them," Bowring, who is a vice-president with the Navy League of Canada.

Liberal Senator Colin Kenny, head of the Senate security and defence committee, said the order time for new submarines is extensive and looking at possible replacement now would make sense.

"I can't see the Victoria submarines being with us for more than a decade," he said. "As long as they maintain this vital capability."

A possible replacement for the troubled British-built boats might be found in Germany. That country has developed a booming export business for its Type 214-Class boats.

South Korea and Greece recently lined up to buy the vessels, which are based on the proven Type 212 design - a boat that is powered by an air independent propulsion system much the same as engineers recommended for the Victoria class.
Will be cheaper in the long run to acquire the German Class boats, and if the politicians can see where to save money, then tis will be looked at...
AfterSSE said:
Will be cheaper in the long run to acquire the German Class boats, and if the politicians can see where to save money, then tis will be looked at...
If its submarines you're after I know where there are 3 Collins Class just gathering rust for lack of ships company to man them :dwarf:
Jack77 said:
AfterSSE said:
Will be cheaper in the long run to acquire the German Class boats, and if the politicians can see where to save money, then tis will be looked at...
If its submarines you're after I know where there are 3 Collins Class just gathering rust for lack of ships company to man them :dwarf:
lol..someone will be along shortly I'm sure... :hockey:
It seems a real shame to me that there are striking similarities to be made here with the UK Royal Navy. Lack of manpower being only one. Its a real shame that Canada sees fit to leave what are perfectly good boats layed up, only using one for costal duties with a bit of training thrown in.
However it also seemed mad that the UK government saw fit to give away perfectly good, brand new submarines in the first place. :clown:
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
J Submariners 2
Scud The Fleet 5
N Diamond Lil's 46

Similar threads

New Posts