9/11 Ten years on

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by guestm, Sep 11, 2011.

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  1. I myself find it difficult to argue with this piece by former presidential candidate Ralph Nader. Nader has in the past been a bit iffy but these points are clear.

    See what you think:

    The commemorative ceremonies that are planned for the 10th anniversary of the 9/11 massacre are those of pathos for the victims and their families, of praise for both the pursuit of the supporters of the attackers and the performance of first responders and our soldiers abroad.

    Flags and martial music will punctuate the combined atmosphere of sorrow and aggressive defiance to those terrorists who would threaten us. These events will be moments of respectful silence and some expressions of rage and ferocity.

    But many Americans might also want to pause to recognize - or unlearn - those reactions and overreactions to 9/11 that have harmed our country. How, in this forward-looking manner, can we respect the day of 9/11?

    Here are some suggestions:

    1. Do not exaggerate our adversaries' strength in order to produce a climate of hysteria that results in repression of civil liberties, embodied in the overwrought USA Patriot Act, and immense long-term damage to our economy. Consider the massive diversion of trillions of dollars from domestic civilian needs because of the huge expansion and misspending in military and security budgets.

    2. Do not allow our leaders to lie and exaggerate as when they told us there were funded, suicidal and hateful al-Qaeda cells all over our country. They were never here. Actually, the wholesale invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan became recruiting grounds for more al-Qaeda branches there and in other countries - a fact acknowledged by both then-Army Chief of Staff George Casey and then-CIA Director Porter Goss.

    3. Do not create a climate of fear or monopolize a partisan definition of patriotism in order to silence dissent from other political parties, the citizenry or the unfairly arrested or harassed.

    4. Do not tolerate presidents who violate our Constitution and start wars without congressional deliberation and a declaration of war (article 1, section 8, clause 11). Do not let them disobey federal statutes and international treaties in pursuing unlawful, misdirected quicksand wars, as in Iraq, that produce deaths, destruction and debts that undermine our country's national interests.

    5. Do not have Congress write a blank check, outside the normal Appropriations Committee hearing process, for the huge budgetary demands from the executive branch for funding of the Iraq, Afghan-Pakistan and other undeclared wars.

    6. Do not allow the executive branch to engage in unconstitutional and illegal recurrent practices such as wiretapping and other methods of surveillance of Americans without judicial approval, in addition to arrests without charges, indefinite imprisonment, torture and denial of habeas corpus and other due process rights established by our Founding Fathers. Congress has passed no reforms to check the continuing exercise of unchecked dictatorial presidential power.

    7. Do not let the government hide the horrors of war from the people by prohibiting photographs of U.S. casualties; operating cruel, secret prisons; harassing reporters; and refusing to count civilian casualties in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. There is too much intimidation of returning soldiers - so many harmed for life - from telling the people what they experienced and think about these wars and their heavy outsourcing to profiteering corporations.

    8. Do not allow leaders to violate American principles with torture or other war crimes prohibited by the Geneva Conventions. Nor should top military brass or members of the executive branch be above our laws and escape accountability.

    9. Do not allow your Congress to abdicate or transfer its own constitutional authorities to the president. We the people have not exercised our civic duties enough to make our representatives in Congress fulfill their obligations under the Constitution to decide whether we go to war and act as a watchdog of the president's conduct. The Libyan war was decided and funded by President Obama without congressional approval.

    10. Call out those in the news media who become a mouthpiece of the president and his departments involved in these hostilities. What more is the military really doing in Libya, Somali and Yemen as compared with the official line? Under what legal authority?

    In addition, demand that news media outlets seek the inconvenient facts, wherever they might lead, unlike the pre-Iraq invasion period.

    The celebrated American theologian-philosopher Reinhold Niebuhr aptly wrote decades ago that "to the end of history, social orders will probably destroy themselves in the effort to prove that they are indestructible."
  2. And your source for the above is?
  3. MLP very well written but due to 3 bottles of wine and the inability to speak or write, in the words of Duncan Bannatine-I'm out!
  4. I think it's all boring crap with too much tv coverage. We've all suffered tragedy over time but don't go on and on about it.
  5. Did you even read the post?
  6. Of course and there's still too much tv coverage.
  7. chieftiff

    chieftiff War Hero Moderator

    I particularly like the way he has made some political gain and publicity from this tragedy at a time when perhaps we should really be reflecting on the loss of human life, especially as he seems to be suggesting that presidents shouldn't..... what would he know though he only ran as a presidential candidate 5 times!

    It's just another politician doing what politicians do MLP, play the hypocrisy game, he doesn't actually mean a word of it but just sees it as an opportunity to attack another politician, the zero sum game for politicians, meaningless drivel.
  8. Whatever the thoughts of the political views of the thread starter..I would like to say on this day, ten years on, May all the people killed in those events RIP and those survivors be remembered. it was a sad day, even for a 11 year old on his first week at high school. I remember it well and always will.

  9. Despite the customary bollox spouted by wise after the event politicians, I find the heroism of the emergency services, and those inside the building who stayed behind to help their fellows totally awe inspiring and not a little humbling. Would I help an old lady down the stairs, delaying my chances of survival, or would I head on down ? These blokes didn't, and should never be forgotten.
  10. I'm well aware of that, which is why I said at the top of my post that he is iffy. Forr whatever reasons his 10 points are written, I agree with them.

    It doesn't matter anyway, the perpetrators of the actions that saw those events cme to fruition on 9/11/2001 got what they wanted. Immediate casualties weren't the sole aim, they were banking on the US going spaz, they won.

    If we are to remember those killed in the World Trade Centre, it would be equally appropriate to remember the far greater number of civilians we have killed in the search for an eye for an eye.

    And yes 9/11 was a terribly sad day, I got my make a mend cancelled. Terrible.

  11. A very valid point Montigny-La-Palisse.
  12. It's not heroic, they didn't know at that time the building would collapse, so just doing the job they were paid to do.
  13. There were a large number of Firefighters who took a decision at a time when they knew it could come down to go back in and try again, knowing full well that it was very likely they wouldn't be walking out again.
  14. Agree totally..So what if someone is trained to do something? Whatever the trade, most people expect to get home alive, when that one time comes when death seems sure, it must take pure courage to save another life. Yes they did there job they were being paid to do that day, but there job was never to die. There where some heroic acts, not all fireman either.

  15. Here here. NMC pretty pathetic comment.
  16. Worst comment I have read by far. Yes it's their job but by far they went way beyond what there pay cheque required of them.

    Nothing but respect for them - all of them.
  17. He has obviously yet to be tested to see if he is the man he thinks he is.
  18. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    My thought exactly. To NotmeChief, 'bottle' is what his rum comes in.
  19. =======================================================================



    The evidence:


    There should be more holes but sometimes he misses.

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