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801(FF) Squadron and the Battle of Britain????

Digger77

Newbie
I've been struggling with this for over 6 years and last night had one of those toss and turn nights as my mind continually poured over the question of, "how?" How is that my grandfather Lt. Cdr. William W. H. Martyn, DSC and Bar (RN) has the the Battle of Britain clasp, but there is not a single record of him with regards to having anything to do with the BoB? He was active in single-seat fighters during the prescribed dates, with 801 (FF) primarily stationed at RNAS Hatston from June to November 1940. Curiously enough, 804 (FF) which was under RAF Coastal Command and is one of the FAA BoB recognized squadrons was also stationed at Hatston. Unfortunately Bill's first log book was lost when HMS Indomitable was bombed by JU-87's on August 12, 1942 during Operation Pedestal. All we have is his log book from July 1941 to the end of his flying days. Is it possible that certain records were destroyed in the 1960's (I heard a story about this a few years back but can't remember the details)? I have yet to ascertain 801's Squadron diary, but I find it hard to believe that all the authors and historians that have poured over this subject for years and in great detail would have missed something so glaring. Fact remains, he has the Battle of Britain clasp, but I have no idea HOW. Any help gratefully appreciated. If you help me solve the mystery you will live for all-time at moosemartyn.com (currently being re-worked and will be back up on July 1)
(The medals and clasps were professionally cleaned and framed in the late 80's - they were removed briefly in 2016 for this picture to be taken)medals.jpg
 

soleil

War Hero
Is there anything relevant here?

 

Knotty

Lantern Swinger
I've been struggling with this for over 6 years and last night had one of those toss and turn nights as my mind continually poured over the question of, "how?" How is that my grandfather Lt. Cdr. William W. H. Martyn, DSC and Bar (RN) has the the Battle of Britain clasp, but there is not a single record of him with regards to having anything to do with the BoB? He was active in single-seat fighters during the prescribed dates, with 801 (FF) primarily stationed at RNAS Hatston from June to November 1940. Curiously enough, 804 (FF) which was under RAF Coastal Command and is one of the FAA BoB recognized squadrons was also stationed at Hatston. Unfortunately Bill's first log book was lost when HMS Indomitable was bombed by JU-87's on August 12, 1942 during Operation Pedestal. All we have is his log book from July 1941 to the end of his flying days. Is it possible that certain records were destroyed in the 1960's (I heard a story about this a few years back but can't remember the details)? I have yet to ascertain 801's Squadron diary, but I find it hard to believe that all the authors and historians that have poured over this subject for years and in great detail would have missed something so glaring. Fact remains, he has the Battle of Britain clasp, but I have no idea HOW. Any help gratefully appreciated. If you help me solve the mystery you will live for all-time at moosemartyn.com (currently being re-worked and will be back up on July 1)
(The medals and clasps were professionally cleaned and framed in the late 80's - they were removed briefly in 2016 for this picture to be taken)View attachment 53272
A beautiful set of medals, good luck with your efforts to establish the BoB facts. Just read Bills exploits, you should be rightfully proud
 

Digger77

Newbie
Have you applied for your grandfather's actual service record from the MoD, Digger77?
I have not. It is on the list of to-do's for as soon as they are accepting requests again.

You are probably aware of this site but it reveals the story of quite a remarkable man.
I am aware of CFB Esquimalt's website - the same piece appears on moosemartyn.com. It was written by Peter Lawson. Unfortunately all efforts to reach him have been nought and I suspect he may have passed.
A beautiful set of medals, good luck with your efforts to establish the BoB facts. Just read Bills exploits, you should be rightfully proud
Thank you. Yes, very proud.
 

soleil

War Hero
I am aware of CFB Esquimalt's website - the same piece appears on moosemartyn.com. It was written by Peter Lawson. Unfortunately all efforts to reach him have been nought and I suspect he may have passed.

There seems to be a phone number for a Peter Lawson in the right place on the White Pages for Canada, but I don't know whether the information is up to date.
 

Digger77

Newbie
There seems to be a phone number for a Peter Lawson in the right place on the White Pages for Canada, but I don't know whether the information is up to date.
Why I never attempted that is beyond me. I will give it a try and let you know. Thank you.
 

Union Jack

Badgeman
Have you applied for your grandfather's actual service record from the MoD, Digger77?
A truly remarkable record, of which you must be rightly proud.

When you do apply for the service record, you may also like to consider applying separately for the Arctic Star on your late grandfather's behalf. His service in FURIOUS looks as if it could well qualify him, based on the criteria at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/medals-campaigns-descriptions-and-eligibility#world-war-2-medals and assuming that you are the official next of kin. If so, apologies for the cost of remounting!

There is some more detail available at https://www.unithistories.com/officers/RN_officersM2.html the note at the end of which leads - indirectly - to a treasure trove of correspondence at https://www.canadianletters.ca/search/site/martyn which you may well have accessed already, or indeed have direct access to the originals.

Intriguingly, I have not seen any reference to your grandfather at https://bbm.org.uk although the webpage regarding compilation seems to suggest that there could be omissions - and there a slight light blue emphasis which might not have taken full account of all dark blue aircrew, especially if they were on temporary loan between squadrons. Perhaps the FAA Museum may have more information.

Good hunting!

Jack
 

Digger77

Newbie
A truly remarkable record, of which you must be rightly proud.

When you do apply for the service record, you may also like to consider applying separately for the Arctic Star on your late grandfather's behalf. His service in FURIOUS looks as if it could well qualify him, based on the criteria at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/medals-campaigns-descriptions-and-eligibility#world-war-2-medals and assuming that you are the official next of kin. If so, apologies for the cost of remounting!

There is some more detail available at https://www.unithistories.com/officers/RN_officersM2.html the note at the end of which leads - indirectly - to a treasure trove of correspondence at https://www.canadianletters.ca/search/site/martyn which you may well have accessed already, or indeed have direct access to the originals.

Intriguingly, I have not seen any reference to your grandfather at https://bbm.org.uk although the webpage regarding compilation seems to suggest that there could be omissions - and there a slight light blue emphasis which might not have taken full account of all dark blue aircrew, especially if they were on temporary loan between squadrons. Perhaps the FAA Museum may have more information.

Good hunting!

Jack

I noted the Arctic Star criteria match some time ago, but had forgotten about it. I thank you for the reminder. I will forward the necessary details to my aunt (has to be eldest child, after spouse, to apply).

When I originally did research for the website back in 2015 I cam across unithistories.com, an excellent resource. There are some mistake with regards to his details, but it is for the most part accurate.

I have all of his letters written home between 1936 and 1945 (there are over 300) and all are available on moosemartyn.com (my website dedicated to his service). The site is down until July 1st, as I am re-working it.

There is not a single source on the internet, nor in any book (that I have seen) that notes my grandfather in any way with regards to the Battle of Britain. So there is no surprise that he can not be found on bbm.org.uk. I got in touch with them years ago and they were useless. I've also spoken to a couple of the eminent authors on the subject and they have zero interest. Which is always surprises me, because I thought historians loved a good mystery and especially like getting to the truth of things.

If I ever get to the bottom of this mystery it will be noted (loudly, for all the years I have tried to figure it out) on moosemartyn.com. I might recommend bookmarking it and having a look on or after July 1st.

Thank you for taking the time to reply and share the information that you did.
 
D

Deleted 96812

Guest
A truly remarkable record, of which you must be rightly proud.

When you do apply for the service record, you may also like to consider applying separately for the Arctic Star on your late grandfather's behalf. His service in FURIOUS looks as if it could well qualify him, based on the criteria at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/medals-campaigns-descriptions-and-eligibility#world-war-2-medals and assuming that you are the official next of kin. If so, apologies for the cost of remounting!

There is some more detail available at https://www.unithistories.com/officers/RN_officersM2.html the note at the end of which leads - indirectly - to a treasure trove of correspondence at https://www.canadianletters.ca/search/site/martyn which you may well have accessed already, or indeed have direct access to the originals.

Intriguingly, I have not seen any reference to your grandfather at https://bbm.org.uk although the webpage regarding compilation seems to suggest that there could be omissions - and there a slight light blue emphasis which might not have taken full account of all dark blue aircrew, especially if they were on temporary loan between squadrons. Perhaps the FAA Museum may have more information.

Good hunting!

Jack

[/QUOTE]
He didn't serve on Furious He served Glorious 801 squadron Ark Royal 801 sqdn Indomitable 880 sqdn Argus 880 sqdn Ruler Ships Coy as "Wings".
Have a look at Aboard Ships with Wings by Peter F Lawson he's featured as A Kingpin in the Service.
You can find it on Google
 

Salty-Dog

Lantern Swinger
He didn't serve on Furious He served Glorious 801 squadron Ark Royal 801 sqdn Indomitable 880 sqdn Argus 880 sqdn Ruler Ships Coy as "Wings".
Have a look at Aboard Ships with Wings by Peter F Lawson he's featured as A Kingpin in the Service.
You can find it on Google
[/QUOTE]
If you read the link on my last post, Under Commanding Officer, it says he was on HMS Furious prior to joining HMS Ruler!
 
D

Deleted 96812

Guest
He didn't serve on Furious He served Glorious 801 squadron Ark Royal 801 sqdn Indomitable 880 sqdn Argus 880 sqdn Ruler Ships Coy as "Wings".
Have a look at Aboard Ships with Wings by Peter F Lawson he's featured as A Kingpin in the Service.
You can find it on Google
If you read the link on my last post, Under Commanding Officer, it says he was on HMS Furious prior to joining HMS Ruler!
[/QUOTE]
It must have been as a passenger as there is no mention of that in the Navy Lists. He only served for 7 years in the RN after the RAF.12 October 1937 to the same date in 1944. There is no mention of him in the Navy Lists after1944.

Lt. Cdr. William WH Martyn/Home
www.moosemartyn.com › Carriers


In his Log Book, HMS Formidable and HMS Battler are also noted. ... HMS Ark Royal HMS Argus HMS Furious HMS Glorious HMS Indomitable HMS Ruler HMS ...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

Deleted 96812

Guest
If you read the link on my last post, Under Commanding Officer, it says he was on HMS Furious prior to joining HMS Ruler!
It must have been as a passenger as there is no mention of that in the Navy Lists. He only served for 7 years in the RN after the RAF.12 October 1937 to the same date in 1944. There is no mention of him in the Navy Lists after1944.

Lt. Cdr. William WH Martyn/Home
www.moosemartyn.com › Carriers


In his Log Book, HMS Formidable and HMS Battler are also noted. ... HMS Ark Royal HMS Argus HMS Furious HMS Glorious HMS Indomitable HMS Ruler HMS ...
[/QUOTE]
Asa pilot he would use many decks as a visitor His Log Boog is not a record of the ships he served on.
 

Dredd

War Hero
Super Moderator
Folks, can you please learn how to use the quote function correctly as this is making for confusing reading.
 
D

Deleted 96812

Guest
You are referring to unofficial publications. The only official guide is Navy List. He did not serve HMS Furious Victualled Aboard. If he used her as a spare deck or any other spare deck he would most likely have had to pay for any meals he had on board. Some Mess secretaries usualyl the Doc might have been kindhearted and let him off.
 

Digger77

Newbie
You are referring to unofficial publications. The only official guide is Navy List. He did not serve HMS Furious Victualled Aboard. If he used her as a spare deck or any other spare deck he would most likely have had to pay for any meals he had on board. Some Mess secretaries usualyl the Doc might have been kindhearted and let him off.
He did serve in HMS Furious, off and on from February to June 1944. The details are clearly marked out in his log book. Which you can all see in high res on moosemartyn.com, from July 1st.
 
D

Deleted 96812

Guest
He did serve in HMS Furious, off and on from February to June 1944. The details are clearly marked out in his log book. Which you can all see in high res on moosemartyn.com, from July 1st.
We are down to semantics. Serve? we will need to determine just what that means.
My late brothers log booksees him at an Archangel Naval Air Base for nearly a month whilst his Sea Hurricane was waiting for spares to arrive from Britain He didn't serve there although I remember that he remembered it with much pleasure. Vodka and voluptuous females with bad teeth!
 
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