24,000 went Awol in 10 years

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by sgtpepperband, Feb 21, 2008.

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  1. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    (Full story)
  2. Pretty broad range considering that it includes everyting from going on the run down to being a couple of minutes adrift.
  3. So about 750 lads are adrift or worse a year, that doesn't seem that bad, I suspect most companies employing as many as the RN do wouldn't be that unhappy with those statistics. The number who go on the trot for real and their reasons are the real thing and no sign of that info. Have this lot been taking lessons from the Wail.
  4. I suppose you could infer it from the numbers of CMs, already low so the delta that haven't been apprehended would seem pretty negligible.
  5. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    ALL naval offenders have the right to trial by CM now, but I don't have the info about how many actually OPT for the option.

    But in my experience, a large majority of absentees are aprehended and brought to justice. Most are not as clever as they think they are, or appreciate how much effort we put into recovering them... :wink:
  6. Even the gross number is not valuable it is the rend in reasons that really matters. For example one can discount those who go on the trot for personal ie marital G/F type reasons as that has always been there, and generally does not indicate disafection of the man though it is possible operating tempo does contribute. The key trends are those covering service related matters, bullying, political, and so on. Changes in that would be an indication of underlying problems just as the pvr rates are important.
  7. Very true, given the complete lack of meaningful interest in PVR reasons I'd be surprised if any of the services had much detail on that. Given the small numbers it would be challenging to demonstrate statistical significance; Sixty CMs in ten years.

    Notwithstanding all of that I'd agree it's pretty sensationalist reporting.
  8. Well when the alternative is picking people up for haircuts and shaving I can understand the desire to do something a little more interesting now and again ;)
  9. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Maxi: When investigating AWOL offences, you try not to get bogged down in the emotive reasons for why they went 'on the run'; that is for the DO to consider. I used to try to understand why people were pissed off with the Mob, etc., but then I noticed a worrying trend in their responses:

    "No-one listens to me..."
    "I'm getting bullied..."
    "I'm getting hassle at home..."

    And then I ask them whether they have asked for help, to which they usually respond with:

    "There was no-one to ask/talk to".

    And this is the point where I lose sympathy, and put it to them that the Navy is full of people you can talk to: the LHOM, the DO, the HOD, the CO, the Discipline Office (yes, even we can help!), the Sick Bay, the Chaplain, the Welfare organisations, the Samaritans... in fact, ANYONE AND EVERYONE can help.

    And at this point they often sit there and go quiet, turn on the waterworks (as if that'll help), and realise what a chump they have been.

    Don't get me wrong, I have investigated hundreds of AWOL cases, and I can count on one hand the number who have genuinely had reasons to go on the trot, and I have dealt with those cases in the appropriate manner (i.e. not necessarily via the discipline route). In fact, last year I bumped into one offender who had about 20 AWOL offences over a period of about 12 months who was getting himself into a deep pit, the offences getting longer and longer; I did my hardest to get him to talk to someone but each time he bottled it and went on the run again, until he had accumulated so many offences that there was no option other than to send him on a holiday to Colchester for a few months. When I saw him last year he had changed his life around: got his LH rate, got a new girlfriend, got a new ship. There was no hard feelings from him, and in fact he thanked me for the effort I put in to try to help him. A success story, so to speak.

    But the motives for going AWOL you mentioned are not really the true reasons in the most incidences, but merely excuses... 8O
  10. SPB

    I fully understand that it is not the reggies job to find out why the trotters trot, that is for the DO or other representative to find out and perhaps use in mitigation. The reggies only need to get the b*gger back and ensure that the evidence of the offence is all ship shape and bristol fashion.

    I must commend you though on your compassion for these poor unfortunates, and if I had the misfortune to be your DO I would seriously ask you to consider whether you were in the correct branch.
  11. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Maxi: Definitely in the right branch - they send me to places like DG! If I was still a Tas Ape, I'd be sat in an Ops Room somewhere, looking at the Action Plot, shouting advice at the PWO(U)... :thumright:
  12. You missed out not having your pass visible, the favourite in Drake.
  13. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Joe_Crow: I agree; the ID card/pass rule was not popular. I have always maintained I was a Pompey rate, but when I was crash drafted to HMS Bulwark ('06-'07) I spent some time alongside Devonport, and was shocked at the attitude of some of my fellow Branch members in their execution of the ID card on display rule. It seems that they had been given specific daily targets, which to me made a mockery of the system. Especially when I learned that some high-level FOST staff also thought it was a stupid idea, and often point blankly refused to display theirs! 8O :wink:
  14. The numbers are a bit misleading SPB, is specifies incidents not number of personnel.

    for example, a colleague at a previous employer, her son was unhappy in the army, ended up going on the trot 3 times (weeks on each occasion) he ended up in DQ's got out of DQ's back his base for a week on the trot again. The extent of the RMP's attempt to get him back each time, advise the local plod (Ayrshire) and phone his mum (Cumbria) and Dad (Ayreshir) each time he was on the trot.

    N.B. He turned himself in after each 'holiday'
  15. Achmed & Oppo, decided to go to Amsterdam for a weekend, monday morning we woke up in a haze in a bar......oh shite i said to oppo....we should have been back last night............lets call Tp Sgt he'll understand.

    7days LAF DIGHT, LAF DIght................bloody good weekend though!!
  16. There were some good Reg Staff at Yeovil in the 80s.
    One kept me out of DQs after I had chinned a L/H because of bullying & harrasment. The L/H was told he would loose his hook if he pushed it.
  17. I think most decent organisations where line management is actually interested in the people and I include the RN in that are quite good at doing the 'right' thing when things happen rather than just going through the motions.
  18. If you were being bullied surely the last thing you would do would be to report it on account of the fact that it would make matters 10 times worse!
  19. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    You really think so? 50 years ago, maybe. But not in today's Navy: Officers, Senior Rates and Leading Hands value their careers more than to jeopardise it in this way.
  20. Slightly rose tinted I suspect, harassment and bullying are alive and well.

    Personally I'd say we've got another five years to go before we can approach it in a mature manner. We're making progress, but we're not there yet.

    I do think there are issues with the fact that the only recourse one has is the chain of command, which is frequently complicit in the situation.

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