2 X Naval shipyards to close [BBC]

willsonline

Lantern Swinger
#3
Portsmouth, however, is in a weak position if there are to be closures, as I understand it can't build the size of ships necessary for replacement of the Royal Navy's Type 42 destroyers.

BBC Scotland's Business Editor

Not sure about this, des he mean FSC programme?
 
#4
willsonline said:
Portsmouth, however, is in a weak position if there are to be closures, as I understand it can't build the size of ships necessary for replacement of the Royal Navy's Type 42 destroyers.

BBC Scotland's Business Editor

Not sure about this, des he mean FSC programme?
The type 45s boy! The 45s replace the 42s. FSC 'might' be the successor of the 23s, though in this indecipherable budgetary sh!tstorm I don't have a friggin clue.
 
#6
Here's a thing: you need Rosyth to assemble the components of a QE Class Carrier. Once it's built, where does it go for UPKEEP periods and DEDs? Another corner painted in to?
 
#7
Passed-over_Loggie said:
Here's a thing: you need Rosyth to assemble the components of a QE Class Carrier. Once it's built, where does it go for UPKEEP periods and DEDs? Another corner painted in to?
They will probably subcontract the work to Brest or possibly Port Suez. :roll:
 
#8
willsonline said:
10 o Clock new have just mentioned that the MOD is seeking to close 2 naval yards (Scottish). This is after the planned CVF work is completed.
THoughts?


FSC is off the table as an FFG… Vosper OPV's are to be the new workhorses of the fleet.

Navy Days 2020 - Come and see HMS Tyne, the flagship of the Fleet!
 
#9
I became increasingly annoyed with the Today Programme this morning. Incessant references to the closure of Royal Navy shipyards. Since when has Scotstoun been even a “Navy†shipyard? Perhaps the BBC’s image of the RN is now so insignificant that accuracy doesn’t matter anymore.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8127000/8127841.stm

0719
Plans are being drawn up for the possible closure of two navy shipyards after aircraft carrier work ends in 2014, BBC Scotland has learned. Douglas Fraser, BBC Radio Scotland's business editor, explains the plans.
What did particularly annoy me was a report that the MoD was going to finance all redundancy costs and site decontamination work.
 
#10
BBC are saying Scotstoun and Govan. Shouldn't affect in-service support of warships, might speed up the building process of new ships- if we can persuade MOD to stop letting contracts involving barges and multiple yards for one vessel.

Annoying that they are referred to as Naval yards, as everyone immediately thinks of Guzz/Pompey, but actually maybe not all bad news for the RN.
 
#12
It seems that the pigeons have come home to roost. Remember Lord Drayson's Defence White Paper on Defence Industrial Strategy published in Dec 2005? It sought to ensure that the capability requirements of the Armed Forces can be met now and in the future by giving industry a clearer idea of MOD priorities; allowing them to make informed decisions on restructuring. It also sought to promote a sustainable defence industrial base that maintains the industrial capabilities needed in the UK to ensure national security.

Defence White Paper on DIS said:
i. The Defence Industrial Strategy (DIS) is structured in three parts: Part A, providing the strategic context; Part B, reviewing different industrial sectors and cross-cutting industrial capabilities; and Part C, outlining the implications for MOD and industry as a whole, and how the DIS will be implemented.

Part A – Strategic Overview

ii. The global security environment in which the Armed Forces operate has changed substantially over the past fifteen years. Facing new and complex challenges, the roles, size and shape of Armed Forces have also changed. In parallel, the defence industry has evolved; defence companies are now often transnational, needing to attract and retain investors in international markets – forcing increased efficiency, restructuring and rationalisation. We are now reaching a crossroads.

iii. Although we are in the middle of a substantial transformation, involving a series of major new platforms (including the future aircraft carriers, Type 45 Destroyers, new medium-weight armoured fighting vehicles, and the A400M, Typhoon and Joint Combat Aircraft), we expect these platforms to have very long service lives. This means the future business for the defence industry in many sectors will be in supporting and upgrading these platforms, rapidly inserting technology to meet emerging threats, fulfil new requirements and respond to innovative opportunities, not immediately moving to design the next generation.

iv. In parallel, industrial rationalisation continues, and sustaining competition to meet domestic requirements is increasingly difficult. In several sectors, following the entry into service of major projects, there will be substantial overcapacity in production facilities in the UK defence industry in a few years’ time.

v. As we look to non-British sources of supply, whether at the prime or subsystems level, we need to continue to recognise the extent to which this may constrain the choices we can make about how we use our Armed Forces – in other words, how we maintain our sovereignty and national security.

vi. Companies now have more choice than ever before about which markets to enter, which secure the best return for shareholders, and here to base their operations. If we do not make clear which industrial capabilities we need to have onshore (and this includes those maintained by foreign-owned defence companies), industry will make independent decisions and indigenous capability which is required to maintain our national security may disappear...
The bit about the Maritime Sector starts on page 68. I am reminded of the old chestnut about the head of the U.S. Patent Office sending his resignation to President McKinley urging the closing of the office in 1899 because "everything that could be invented has been invented."
 
#13
In many ways this all goes back to Thatcher and the end of Cost Plus, a process which the septics stiil use when appropriate interestingly. As the comtitive tendering process developed it became clear that the MOD was pretty rubbish at both identifying and manging risk so they decided to ofload this to the contractors. The contractors said OK but it will cost you and it has. Having ofloaded risk the MOD then tried to offload investment on the basis the companies benefited from investment thus they should pay. This time the companies said just a minute, why should be invest in defence procurement when we don't know what will be procured. Now wheel in Lord Grayson, lovely report but sod all action.

I suspect this paper is part of the process BVT is going through with the MOD to try and plan for the future. Just as it takes time to get Jack onto the trained strength it takes time also to get skilled people onto the shop floor in industry. BVT does need to plan now for the facilities and workforce needed in 2015 and it would seem that on what the MOD has stated so far most of the company is going down the tubes

Interestingly though it equally begs the question as to how many yards will stay open now if you cancell the carries tomorrow.

Has the messy beast managed to pull a fast one on Gordon.
 
#14
Maxi - I believe you are confusing Lord Drayson (author of the DIS White Paper) with Lord Grayson (who wasn't). Or were you thinking of Lord Greystoke as in Michael Heseltine (Tarzan)? :wink:
 
#15
Naval_Gazer said:
Maxi - I believe you are confusing Lord Drayson (author of the DIS White Paper) with Lord Grayson (who wasn't). Or were you thinking of Lord Greystoke as in Michael Heseltine (Tarzan)? :wink:
It certainly wasn't Tarzan, rather it was Drayson. Heard him speak once, almost sounded as if he understood what he was talking about. Mind you if he actually knew what he was doing that makes what has happened over the last ten years in procurement even worse.
 
#16
Naval_Gazer said:
It seems that the pigeons have come home to roost. Remember Lord Drayson's Defence White Paper on


Carriers? Jury's out wether they get built after all…

T45's? 50% reduction in hulls

FRES? Binned

A400M? Over budget, delayed, will not meet specifications, we may end up pulling out.

Typhoon? Very nice but we are trying to offload half of them to a not very interested market

JCA/F-35? Be very surprised if that gets bought as the price is rocketing and capabities had to be cut to make the STOVL version VL
 

Seaweed

War Hero
Book Reviewer
#17
Beeb is still gibbering about 'Royal Navy shipyards'.

With that level of editorial understanding, what price the rest of the commentary.
 
#19
Call me cynical, but isn't the Govan and Scotstoun shipyards in the former speaker Michael Martin's backyard? Won't a large number of the people affected by possible job losses be people living in an area voting in a by-election in September, to replace the 'Rt Honourable' Mr Martin? It wouldn't surprise me if this leak turned out to be political...
 
#20
It is certainly very interesting to see the level of panic this has engendered in Labour's Scottish Secretary, who is having opanic meetings with BVT this morning and is making bold statements about needing to preserve the skills and facilities.

It seems to make cancellation of the Carriers now very difficult as that would almost certainly mean the closures being brought forward to now.
 
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