1 in 10 homeless in Glasgow are ex-Army

And yet Glasgow is full of 'Asylum Seekers' who all have comfy, fully kitted out refurbished flats. And benefits. Which although partial, are backdated after three years as a nice lump sum (about £14k) in their hand.

Seriously, WTF is wrong with us when we dont value our own? I dont get it, and it pisses me RIGHT off. :evil:
 

2badge_mango

War Hero
Could make a point that if ALL the homeless across the UK were surveyed there would be a high proportion of Glaswegians and ex servicemen in most other cities, including London. However, thinking back to the days of my youth, there was then a high proportion of Irishmen and ex servicemen. They worked, when work was available, in the building and catering industries, and, when they hadn't exhausted their pay in the bookies and pubs, could afford to stay at one of the many Sally Army or Rowten House hostels that then existed. I started work in 1951 in a not too salubrious restaurant/cafeteria in the Strand, and was always surprised at the queue from 0530 onwards outside the staff entrance to the Lyons corner house by Charing Cross that I passed on my way to work. These were men looking for casual, daily paid, work as kitchen porters.
We, in our cafeteria, also had our share of itinerent men. Some of them were highly intelligent, well educated, and, if you could persuade them, would regale you with really interesting stories. More than a few were ex service, some officers, who could not reconcile their recent experiences of WW2 with a completely different life in post war civvy street. They were, however, in the true context of the word, vagrants. Some through circumstance, some from choice, but behind it all was a web of support services and hostels that we now lack.
The lowland Scots, and the Glasgow area in particular, have always provided a high proportion of recruits to the British services. Their region has also suffered from the monstrous decline in the shipbuilding industry. So, why should we be surprised that there is a preponderance of ex servicemen from that region who cannot settle back to civilian life.
The thing that we lack in this modern age is the 1950s support system that was then available. The Rowten Houses and Sally Ann hostels are now Park Hotels - nothing has replaced them.

2BM
 
Wheel-spanner said:
And yet Glasgow is full of 'Asylum Seekers' who all have comfy, fully kitted out refurbished flats. And benefits. Which although partial, are backdated after three years as a nice lump sum (about £14k) in their hand.

Seriously, WTF is wrong with us when we dont value our own? I dont get it, and it pisses me RIGHT off. :evil:

Roger that mate - Its a fckn disgrace!!

The money thats wasted on Asylum Seekers, Junkies and dont even get me fckn started on that Scottish Parliament building!!
 

slim

War Hero
It must be remembered that a portion of rough sleepers are on the streets by choice. Unfortunately they have been removed from sheltered hostel accommodation because for reasons known only to them they are unable to co-exist with other hostel members. Unable to abide by simple rules many are eventually asked to leave. Most of these are addicted to either drugs ar alcohol and either cannot or will not seek help. The first step for any addict is to recognise that they have a problem, until this occurs nothing can be done for them. Its my belief that giving change to the down and out can only prolong his/her problem. Unless help is sought social services have their hands tied and are unable to offer help.
 

fido

MIA
slim said:
It must be remembered that a portion of rough sleepers are on the streets by choice. Unfortunately they have been removed from sheltered hostel accommodation because for reasons known only to them they are unable to co-exist with other hostel members. Unable to abide by simple rules many are eventually asked to leave. Most of these are addicted to either drugs ar alcohol and either cannot or will not seek help. The first step for any addict is to recognise that they have a problem, until this occurs nothing can be done for them. Its my belief that giving change to the down and out can only prolong his/her problem. Unless help is sought social services have their hands tied and are unable to offer help.
Slim, you are, as always, the voice of reason.
 
fido said:
slim said:
It must be remembered that a portion of rough sleepers are on the streets by choice. Unfortunately they have been removed from sheltered hostel accommodation because for reasons known only to them they are unable to co-exist with other hostel members. Unable to abide by simple rules many are eventually asked to leave. Most of these are addicted to either drugs ar alcohol and either cannot or will not seek help. The first step for any addict is to recognise that they have a problem, until this occurs nothing can be done for them. Its my belief that giving change to the down and out can only prolong his/her problem. Unless help is sought social services have their hands tied and are unable to offer help.
Slim, you are, as always, the voice of reason.
No need for that Fido, I ask you to read again what Slim wrote. It isn't without compassion but it is a hard nasty fact that quite a lot of homeless people are those that are either addicted to something or other and don't/won't ask for the mountain of help that is available or are serial loners who refuse to get along with others therefore putting themselves in that position (in a sense). Help cannot be given without it being asked for.
I don't give money to the homeless, i'd rather go into a Macrobbers and buy them a meal and give it to them (as I have done in the past, only to get a dirty look!!).
 

slim

War Hero
Lamri said:
fido said:
slim said:
It must be remembered that a portion of rough sleepers are on the streets by choice. Unfortunately they have been removed from sheltered hostel accommodation because for reasons known only to them they are unable to co-exist with other hostel members. Unable to abide by simple rules many are eventually asked to leave. Most of these are addicted to either drugs ar alcohol and either cannot or will not seek help. The first step for any addict is to recognise that they have a problem, until this occurs nothing can be done for them. Its my belief that giving change to the down and out can only prolong his/her problem. Unless help is sought social services have their hands tied and are unable to offer help.
Slim, you are, as always, the voice of reason.
No need for that Fido, I ask you to read again what Slim wrote. It isn't without compassion but it is a hard nasty fact that quite a lot of homeless people are those that are either addicted to something or other and don't/won't ask for the mountain of help that is available or are serial loners who refuse to get along with others therefore putting themselves in that position (in a sense). Help cannot be given without it being asked for.
I don't give money to the homeless, i'd rather go into a Macrobbers and buy them a meal and give it to them (as I have done in the past, only to get a dirty look!!).
Unfortunately Lamri the recipient of the big Muc finds it extremely difficult to convert it to drugs/ alcohol, hence the look.
 

slim

War Hero
40 years ago the only time I encountered beggars was when visiting foreign ports. We didn't have them in the UK, the police made sure of that as begging was (and still is I believe) a criminal offence. 20 years ago and the streets of Britain started to resemble places like Kenya and Singapore, you couldn't move without being approached for a handout. Noe go to Singapore and the beggars have gone (still get them other places though) but the UK seems to have a surplus of them. Go to any town or city and you will see the same ones sitting in the same places hands outstretched asking "any spare change please".
What has happenned to this country, we have a welfare system which looks after these drop outs from society. Time to clear them off the streets and perhaps when they are not receiving the handouts they will be forced to tackle their drug/drinking problem head on.
Heartless?
Yes.
Will it work?
Who knows.
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
If everyone stopped giving beggers money they would disappear off of the streets in very short order.

Most if not all are receiving benefits, and can make an extra tax free handout from the mugs that support them twice.

I have no truck with druggies in particular who claim that they can't work because of their "illness." Its not an illness its a self inflicted condition. I believe that the solution would be secure treatment clinics to assist in getting any addicts off drugs (I include alcohol). Voluntary admitance into the clinic being a condition of receiving benefits.

As far as the work shy are concerned, the benefits queue would be shortened if everyone on job seekers allowance, or whatever the current trendy phrase is, was required, after being unemployed for, say, six months was required to attend education classes from 0900 til 1700 daily on weekdays. A two fold solution, its difficult to work in the black economy if you are in class all day and a large number of those unemployed suffer from having been released from the education system without knowing the basic three R's.

I am strongly of the opinion that no one should be able to leave school until they are capable of basic maths and english, and an ability to read.
 
janner said:
a large number of those unemployed suffer from having been released from the education system without knowing the basic three R's.

I am strongly of the opinion that no one should be able to leave school until they are capable of basic maths and english, and an ability to read.
Janner mate, it is well documented that the sprogs leaving school for the past ten years or so with A levels up the ying-yang still aren't quite sure of the three R's, although they could argue the toss for a few hours with you over it, having no respect for any type of authority. (They know better, cos they ave A levils!)
 

slim

War Hero
janner said:
If everyone stopped giving beggers money they would disappear off of the streets in very short order.

Most if not all are receiving benefits, and can make an extra tax free handout from the mugs that support them twice.

I have no truck with druggies in particular who claim that they can't work because of their "illness." Its not an illness its a self inflicted condition. I believe that the solution would be secure treatment clinics to assist in getting any addicts off drugs (I include alcohol). Voluntary admitance into the clinic being a condition of receiving benefits.

As far as the work shy are concerned, the benefits queue would be shortened if everyone on job seekers allowance, or whatever the current trendy phrase is, was required, after being unemployed for, say, six months was required to attend education classes from 0900 til 1700 daily on weekdays. A two fold solution, its difficult to work in the black economy if you are in class all day and a large number of those unemployed suffer from having been released from the education system without knowing the basic three R's.

I am strongly of the opinion that no one should be able to leave school until they are capable of basic maths and english, and an ability to read.
Problem is the PC brigade insist that it is the right for those people on the edges of society to live the way they wish to live.
I agree with them 100% but do not see why my taxes should in any way be used to help them achieve this lifestyle.
Genuine cases (which there will always be) should be given every assistance, that's the reason for the welfare system .
 
slim said:
40 years ago the only time I encountered beggars was when visiting foreign ports. We didn't have them in the UK, the police made sure of that as begging was (and still is I believe) a criminal offence. 20 years ago and the streets of Britain started to resemble places like Kenya and Singapore, you couldn't move without being approached for a handout. Noe go to Singapore and the beggars have gone (still get them other places though) but the UK seems to have a surplus of them. Go to any town or city and you will see the same ones sitting in the same places hands outstretched asking "any spare change please".
What has happenned to this country, we have a welfare system which looks after these drop outs from society. Time to clear them off the streets and perhaps when they are not receiving the handouts they will be forced to tackle their drug/drinking problem head on.
Heartless?
Yes.
Will it work?
Who knows.
Begging used to be caught under the old Vagrancy Acts. Beggars can still be arrested I recall but there are too few police cells in places like London for the numbers involved, so it's impractical. In reality, many of those on the streets are mentally ill and the numbers of homeless increased substantially after the Thatcher Government closed down the old delapidated, long-stay psychiatric hospitals but did not provide councils with the money to take the rhetoric of community care beyond talk into action. In London we also have a good many homeless who are children who have run away from childrens' homes or been thrown out (under age) by their parents for one reason or another. This has swelled the numbers considerably. Finally, again in London, a significant number of homeless people are ex-Servicemen, mainly ex-Army. Whilst the drug users and alcoholics account for a growing proportion, they are only part of the problem.

Steve.
 

slim

War Hero
Always_a_Civvy said:
slim said:
40 years ago the only time I encountered beggars was when visiting foreign ports. We didn't have them in the UK, the police made sure of that as begging was (and still is I believe) a criminal offence. 20 years ago and the streets of Britain started to resemble places like Kenya and Singapore, you couldn't move without being approached for a handout. Noe go to Singapore and the beggars have gone (still get them other places though) but the UK seems to have a surplus of them. Go to any town or city and you will see the same ones sitting in the same places hands outstretched asking "any spare change please".
What has happenned to this country, we have a welfare system which looks after these drop outs from society. Time to clear them off the streets and perhaps when they are not receiving the handouts they will be forced to tackle their drug/drinking problem head on.
Heartless?
Yes.
Will it work?
Who knows.
Begging used to be caught under the old Vagrancy Acts. Beggars can still be arrested I recall but there are too few police cells in places like London for the numbers involved, so it's impractical. In reality, many of those on the streets are mentally ill and the numbers of homeless increased substantially after the Thatcher Government closed down the old delapidated, long-stay psychiatric hospitals but did not provide councils with the money to take the rhetoric of community care beyond talk into action. In London we also have a good many homeless who are children who have run away from childrens' homes or been thrown out (under age) by their parents for one reason or another. This has swelled the numbers considerably. Finally, again in London, a significant number of homeless people are ex-Servicemen, mainly ex-Army. Whilst the drug users and alcoholics account for a growing proportion, they are only part of the problem.

Steve.
And how many of these children's parents are still claiming the child allowance and other benefits after throwing child out?
Another question. If a child is taken into care does the parent/guardian of the child still have a right to child benefit etc. while the child is in care?
As for care in teh community, it is not working. We really need something better than the old style mental hospitals for our mentally ill people. Somewhere where they can be helped to live within the community but with the protection of professional carers.
 

nutty_bag

War Hero
slim said:
Always_a_Civvy said:
slim said:
40 years ago the only time I encountered beggars was when visiting foreign ports. We didn't have them in the UK, the police made sure of that as begging was (and still is I believe) a criminal offence. 20 years ago and the streets of Britain started to resemble places like Kenya and Singapore, you couldn't move without being approached for a handout. Noe go to Singapore and the beggars have gone (still get them other places though) but the UK seems to have a surplus of them. Go to any town or city and you will see the same ones sitting in the same places hands outstretched asking "any spare change please".
What has happenned to this country, we have a welfare system which looks after these drop outs from society. Time to clear them off the streets and perhaps when they are not receiving the handouts they will be forced to tackle their drug/drinking problem head on.
Heartless?
Yes.
Will it work?
Who knows.
Begging used to be caught under the old Vagrancy Acts. Beggars can still be arrested I recall but there are too few police cells in places like London for the numbers involved, so it's impractical. In reality, many of those on the streets are mentally ill and the numbers of homeless increased substantially after the Thatcher Government closed down the old delapidated, long-stay psychiatric hospitals but did not provide councils with the money to take the rhetoric of community care beyond talk into action. In London we also have a good many homeless who are children who have run away from childrens' homes or been thrown out (under age) by their parents for one reason or another. This has swelled the numbers considerably. Finally, again in London, a significant number of homeless people are ex-Servicemen, mainly ex-Army. Whilst the drug users and alcoholics account for a growing proportion, they are only part of the problem.

Steve.
And how many of these children's parents are still claiming the child allowance and other benefits after throwing child out?
Another question. If a child is taken into care does the parent/guardian of the child still have a right to child benefit etc. while the child is in care?
As for care in teh community, it is not working. We really need something better than the old style mental hospitals for our mentally ill people. Somewhere where they can be helped to live within the community but with the protection of professional carers.
We have a mental health team known as PEST that come out and evaluate patients with Ho mental health issues. I have to say that it's the blind leading the blind mate and when you meet said individuals you will be unsure who has the mental health problems. i could bore you all with examples, indeed i started writing one but the bottom line is that they are not interested in anything other than the hugely inflated wages they earn. and dont even get my started about out of hour GP's £200 per hour and they want ambulance crews (£10 per hour) to certify death because they can't be bothered basically
 

safewalrus

War Hero
And of course we've all had mental breakdowns, divorces that lead to the same, and other problems, been out of work for eleven months with a family to feed and little or no other support (as for veterans agencies POSH words not much use)! But some of us still have pride and don't ask (knowing we ain't foreign non English speaking lesbians with one leg that can't be bothered) and try to sort ourselves out - some succeed others fail miserably, who's to know who until you try!

Each to his own but if we're going to shout about it take everybody on their own case, give 'em a fair crack of the whip and then....if they don't shape up, kick their arses but give 'em a chance first!

Mind you them as take the p*** should be exterminated PDQ
 
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