£50Billion bale out - new Carriers more Escorts doubt it

Discussion in 'The Quarterdeck' started by stan_the_man, Oct 8, 2008.

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  1. What with a massive downturn in the housing market, redundancies looming and the economy in freefall does anyone really think a couple of carriers will ever appear in the next twenty years. Maybe even our pensions aren't safe - thats worrying.
    Still Eastenders and Corrers are on tonight
     
  2. You're right, totally right, the world is going to fall apart and no one is safe. The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

    And Eastenders > Corrie.
     
  3. chieftiff

    chieftiff War Hero Moderator

    Which one? My military pension would take a change in the law to become unsafe - outrage bandwagon commence.
    My final salary pension is guaranteed - letter from the pension board today telling me I have nothing to worry about as it's minted.
    Old age pension, wasn't worth sod all anyway- but again a change in the law would be required to effect it - big uoutrage bandwagon.

    Only people in private equity based pensions have anything to worry about; a lot to worry about should I say, but pensions are long term investments anyway and for that reason tend to weather the storm.

    As for the rest, I see no ships!
     
  4. Re: £50Billion bale out - new Carriers more Escorts doubt i

    Chieftiff I agree with you that people are overreacting a touch. One small point though. You can be as outraged as you like and talk about changes in the law till the cows come home, but there is a good chance that the money has actually run out. In a scenario where the country is bankrupt, where is the money that you are owed going to come from exactly? Regardless of any bits of paper you may have promising you otherwise.

    Not having a go at you by the way, but this does have the potential to get more serious than I think many people so far have imagined.
     
  5. chieftiff

    chieftiff War Hero Moderator

    Re: £50Billion bale out - new Carriers more Escorts doubt i

    But we aren't Iceland, the fifth largest economy in the world has a fairly good credit record. Interesting to note that the increased borrowing incurred by UK PLC to provide liquidity in the market and guarantee bank security ( a total estimated as £200bn so far with the guarantee of another £50bn and other incentives including further Bank of England lending giving a total of £400bn) has pushed the national debt by a further whopping.............. 5% of GDP, hardly bankruptcy stakes is it!

    I believe we are now about 49% of GDP in debt, that's like you being 50% of your annual gross wage in debt.(sort of) you'd expect your mortgage to be paid off over 25 years and it may sit at as much as 3 times your annual wage not half of it. Perspective.........

    The Govt hasn't just borrowed the whole £400bn and in fact much of it isn't even committed just guaranteed, they will recover much if not all of it in the medium to long term. UK PLC isn't about to go on sale for the best offer to the liquidator.
     
  6. Re: £50Billion bale out - new Carriers more Escorts doubt i

    I am sure i have read that the first lot of orders have been placed what for i do not know probably ancillerey stuff 245.000.000 i think it is
     
  7. Re: £50Billion bale out - new Carriers more Escorts doubt i

    The BBC 6 o'clock news was hinting heavily that much planned spending is likely to be put on the back-burner for a while and some taxes will have to be increased so as the Goverment can manage the debt .Orders for Carriers or any other kit can be cancelled as well as placed,there may be a cancellation fee to pay but not as much as letting things take the full course.
     
  8. Re: £50Billion bale out - new Carriers more Escorts doubt i

    Havnt seen any news today but i did see that over the last few days somewhere
     
  9. Re: £50Billion bale out - new Carriers more Escorts doubt i

    The UK is assessed as being worth about £166 Trillion so the money offered to banks is peanuts .

    Lots of waffle on TV news tonight about its Tax payers money helping
    private banks and taxes being needed to cover it but its not really a starter --as mentioned the money is only available IF needed and will be paid back if lent with interest and security .
    Basically the Government has to get money moving again -the banks are all strapped for readies due to having to buy back the ''bad loans '' that they had sold on as viable to other banks .
    The ''city'' and its dealings are an integral part of the tax revenue in the Uk so with credit not being available taxes are not being collected .
    Apart from the job losses and further loss of revenue.

    Pensions won't be affected ,any savings held by banks will be guaranteed
    as there is a Financial guarantee between banking services . In this case the government is backing that too--monies will be reclaimed from the whole UK banking establishment !!

    :nemo: :nemo:
     
  10. Re: £50Billion bale out - new Carriers more Escorts doubt i

    Aus is a little bit better off, but we still get these "experts" :pukel: on TV waffleing on about the crisis...funny that the yanks sneeze and the R.O.W gets a cold. But why put taxes up? Is that the answer to everything?

    So far our carriers and AWD's are still going ahead and the RAAF are getting Navy F18 Hornets..yeah thats right Navy Hornets...amongst other goodies.
     
  11. Re: £50Billion bale out - new Carriers more Escorts doubt i

    Agree with the yanks sneeze bit.

    As for taxes.

    Worked for the Romans in 3 BC. Our 'Darling' - simply following a trend.
     
  12. Oh well, let's look on the bright side. It's perfectly fine to cut defence procurement to the bone in order to bail out a Government which ran up massive debts during the boom years.

    After all, financial turmoil has never led to the emergence of unpleasant governments with whom we've come into conflict.

    Oh, wait. That's not true at all, is it.
     
  13. Re: £50Billion bale out - new Carriers more Escorts doubt i

    Perversely, an economic downturn is GOOD news for the carriers. As the private sector slows due to a lack of available capital and general loss of confidence then the only major drivers for the economy as a whole is the public sector. Rather than see mass lay offs in the shipbuilding and related industries would it not make sense to complete the carriers, even at a cost of about £4Bn (source - http://navy-matters.beedall.com/cvf1-22.htm ), it would be peanuts rather than to decimate what's left of our manufacturing base and then have to pay benefits to all those affected.

    We'd arguably still need the CVFs so it does make sense to carry on - in fact an argument could be put forward to increase the number of T45 hulls. Of course all this costs money and the payback comes when the economy starts to pick up and the government has little room to manoeuvre for tax cuts or spending increases.

    Discuss.

    James

    ps.

    excrement > corrie > EE
     
  14. Seaweed

    Seaweed War Hero Book Reviewer

    1. Don't discount the crisis in the stock market which has hit anyone with Stock/Share ISAs and anyone with a 'defined contribution' pension fund (as opposed to 'final salary'), and in neither case is there any Govt bailout.

    2. IMHO what is happening is that Govt is solving the problem by printing money; and the only way this black hole can be covered is through inflation, so although the £ face value of savings is protected in the short term, cash savings will lose real value over a longer period.

    3. No end individuals are stuck in or with houses they can't sell even if they drop the price - until we get back to a stable situation re mortgages and even then prices will reflect stricter terms (which terms, %total cost and ability to pay, shopuld never have been eased in the first place).

    Of course the architects of this disaster have long ago and over several years trousered vast amounts as a reward for their behaviour. Now thrive the 'advisers' and fund managers whose %s get first bite anyway.
     
  15. Re: £50Billion bale out - new Carriers more Escorts doubt i

    Quote of the Week
    'I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.'
    Thomas Jefferson 1802
     
  16. All pensions could be in danger if the government goes bust bailng out the greedy fat cats.

    It looks like soup kitchens, doss houses, and begging on the corner of every street (buddy can't you spare a dime) will be back again.

    Guess who will be the first in front of the Sally Ann soup kitchen queue?
     
  17. Go for it, our Navy is bigger than their Navy, WELL NOT BY MUCH, but I think we can take them.


    Nutty
     
  18. What really gets me is that if I make a miss calculation no matter how small or what the reason the banks really screw you, with a penalty that could be out of all proportion to the miss calculatioin. Now these people who have been screwing Joe Public for years, expect the same Joe Public to bail them out. They will still get their excessively large bonuses for failure has they did before, wish I was on that gravy chain.




    Came on this Earth with nothing, I'm not doing bad I've still got it.
     

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