£2bn Navy ships get the OK

Redsailor

Lantern Swinger
Since the Sun rag is totally verboten in Liverpool, this was the first I've heard about the alleged done deal. Checked out all the likely sources on the web but found absolutely nada to support the story. Does anybody think these carriers will actually materialise? If Prudence Brown gets the PM's job he'll find a way to kill the plan one way or another that's for damn sure.

Bottom Gun
 
Former Navy officer Mike Critchley, of Warship World magazine, said of the vessels: “They put the Navy back in the First Division.â€

That'll be the Coca Cola (or Panda Pop) league then and we'd clearly still not be in the Premiership...
 

Not_a_boffin

War Hero
"if we let the French into this any more they're going to turn this into another Horizon project (a way for the frogs to sell us some expensive kit, which worked, we bought the Aster missile system for the Type 45's)"

Dublinclontarf - I can absolutely guarantee you that if anyone is getting @rseraped on this, it's the Foul & Most Foreign......They paid £100M for what was in effect a feasibility design (ie very little systems definition and no build information). Their technical staff on the project were allegedly furious when they found out what they had paid for.
 

ukdaytona

War Hero
Im interested in the comment 'fighters & bombers' - this thing gonna carry subs then as didnt realise we still had any 'bombers' flying and WTF is that ski jump for, where is the cat????
 

Handler

War Hero
Well Dublin ----ya have to be fair. At least the French have a carrier that operates fixed wing, and an aircraft to go with it, more than we have had since the demise of the 'proper ' carriers. We have been in this wilderness of lack of interest and cost cutting for so long --anything like this idea of these 'super' carriers is just a bit much to swallow; Seeing is believing and the day they materialise--will be truly magical !!
 

dublinclontarf

Badgeman
Handler said:
Well Dublin ----ya have to be fair. At least the French have a carrier that operates fixed wing, and an aircraft to go with it, more than we have had since the demise of the 'proper ' carriers. We have been in this wilderness of lack of interest and cost cutting for so long --anything like this idea of these 'super' carriers is just a bit much to swallow; Seeing is believing and the day they materialise--will be truly magical !!

Fair enough, I just don't want any other countries involved since they guarantee further massive delays in everything if it ever actually gets the go ahead. Nothing against the French it's just what happens when collaborating with projects this size, think Eurofighter, Horizon, and Airbus A380.
 

Handler

War Hero
Well Airbus has overall been a success , at least the EuroFighter flies and don't forget that other magnificent set of wings --Concord , but you must also take into account that problems are often a result of our own hierachy, our wonderful exchequer and its idiots in charge for an example. The constant changing of ideas and who or what is going to pay for them.
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
dublinclontarf said:
Handler said:
Well Dublin ----ya have to be fair. At least the French have a carrier that operates fixed wing, and an aircraft to go with it, more than we have had since the demise of the 'proper ' carriers. We have been in this wilderness of lack of interest and cost cutting for so long --anything like this idea of these 'super' carriers is just a bit much to swallow; Seeing is believing and the day they materialise--will be truly magical !!

Fair enough, I just don't want any other countries involved since they guarantee further massive delays in everything if it ever actually gets the go ahead. Nothing against the French it's just what happens when collaborating with projects this size, think Eurofighter, Horizon, and Airbus A380.

Well, lets consider the French record.

They were originally in the Eurofighter project but pulled out because they wanted a naval version and we didn't. So they took their ball and went home, designed the Rafale in both land and fully navalized versions and got it to sea and into service while BAE were still trying to build the first batch of substandard 'fitted for but not with' Typhoons…
 
Oil_Slick said:
Well, lets consider the French record.

They were originally in the Eurofighter project but pulled out because they wanted a naval version and we didn't. So they took their ball and went home, designed the Rafale in both land and fully navalized versions and got it to sea and into service while BAE were still trying to build the first batch of substandard 'fitted for but not with' Typhoons…

The Frech pulled out because they were outmanoeuvred by us in the setting up of the Eurofighter deal and they were not going to get all they wanted. The naval version was not the stopping point, rather the design lead which was the French price for the deal.

Rafale has it's problems, some of which will be overcome but some are fundamental to the design and will live with the plane through it's life. Equally like much French kit it will be built down to a price in the hope of export sales and will probably not do all the Frog AF really wanted.
 

Handler

War Hero
True and their first 'home-made' effort since the Etendard, having relied on ageing Crusaders. Like the Swedes and Israelis capable of producing very tidy performers!!
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
Maxi_77 said:
Oil_Slick said:
Well, lets consider the French record.

They were originally in the Eurofighter project but pulled out because they wanted a naval version and we didn't. So they took their ball and went home, designed the Rafale in both land and fully navalized versions and got it to sea and into service while BAE were still trying to build the first batch of substandard 'fitted for but not with' Typhoons…

The Frech pulled out because they were outmanoeuvred by us in the setting up of the Eurofighter deal and they were not going to get all they wanted. The naval version was not the stopping point, rather the design lead which was the French price for the deal.

Rafale has it's problems, some of which will be overcome but some are fundamental to the design and will live with the plane through it's life. Equally like much French kit it will be built down to a price in the hope of export sales and will probably not do all the Frog AF really wanted.


Seems a bit churlish to crib a bout a few problems when we have an absolutely fundemental problems with our 'fighters'… we ain't got none!

I'd rather see some less than perfect Rafales flying off the deck of an RN carriers than the current 'solution', aka GR(not a fighter)9's, or the still somewhere way over the horizon F-35.

And as to the plane not doing everything the French AF want, Tranche 1 Typhoons are barely combat capable and seem to in a constant upgrade cycle.

It was French planes 'built down to a price' that wiped out the Arab AF's in 1967 and gave us a rather bloody nose in 82.
 
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