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Originally Posted by DAFC10

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Thats a great attitude, it does matter what myself and other CPO's think because we are the ones doing the job. I have made my choice and decided to leave, as have many others which is why there is a shortage of WO2/Cat A.

It's not an 'attitude' it's MOD policy - I didn't make the policy it has nothing to do with me

Originally Posted by DAFC10

The attitude of, tough get on with it, life in a blue one etc..... is not exactly helpful to solving the manning problems in submarines.
When I signed on the dotted line you didn't lose all your submarine/nuclear pay if you put your notice in, that happens from April this year.

errr, it was YOU who initially said this ...

Originally Posted by DAFC10

Personally I don't agree with the whole retention argument, although I'm well aware I will be going to sea for £650 less than usual and theres nothing I can do about it. Life in a blue one, if you don't like it put your notice in etc...

not the best attitude eh?

Let's be honest- if you are in receipt of extra pay, you'll have a vested interest in this. If you're not then it's lift the ladder jack I'm all right.

Can see both sides TBH.

Fair enough I accept you've made a valid point. From whats been posted on here and opinions from the boat/base people seem to be divided in two.
Those who think its wrong to expect someone to do the same job for less because they have requested to leave the service and no other reason.
And those who think its correct for reasons such as, specialist pay is retention pay not for actual specialist skills and thats the rules so tough get on with it and stop dripping.

As I've said before DAFC10, this is not a new problem by any stretch of the imagination. There's been manning shortages in the back aft world for decades. The shortage of Cat A2 and Cat B has been going on for donkeys years. I was on a boat when they brought in nuclear pay which was a bounty for 3 years return of service initially (1977) and the MoD has been trying many different ruses to improve retention, nobody ever asked us at the coalface TBH and this is just another attempt at improving retention (again without canvassing the troops in-depth).

Look at it another way, the less you get paid now the less you'll miss it when you leave unless your one of the lucky ones.

edited for mong spooling

DAFC10 - Indirectly, the 'incentive to stay' money you are forfeiting will be put towards paying the individual who will have to be recruited and trained to relieve you early. The gap will have to be filled somehow and that will cost money.

No tears please but your decision to leave before your allotted time will cause additional cost and other penalties to the Fleet. That's why a minimum 'return of service' commitment is usually required from those in receipt of particularly expensive training, especially in niche/shortage categories. If many more people left early, the recruiting/training pipeline would probably seize up and/or run out of money while trying to make up the difference.

OK, I wasn't 100% sure, but now I am ....

Originally Posted by frogman007

100% Bollox. It used to be for us Specialy Selected Pay (Diving)(SSP(D)). You were paid for your core set of skills, the conditions ie effing cold for long hours, and for dealing with UXO etc. Diving pay went up dramatically in the 80's due to the mass exodus of lads leaving to go sat diving. This was used an incentive to stay but was never used as retention. In 2002 when the next generation of lads started to leave for the North sea, SSP(D) suddenly became "retention" pay. In 2004 the first lad to leave suddenly found himself losing 50% of his pay. As was pointed out by D10 in April you will lose ALL of your specialist pay.

Your 100% Bollox statement is, well, err, 100% Bollox fella

Firstly, SSP = Special Service Pay, not some made up thing about Specially Selected Pay.

Secondly, it was and always has been used for recruitment and retention (see N_Gs posty above) and not, as you wrongly say, for your 'core set of skills' although many misguided and blissfully unaware, such as yourself, beleive it to be so.

This is from some documents that I have seen at work today, someone pretty high up in your own branch and a member of this site (who you know to be knowledgeable on the subject).

So,

that'll be 15-2, 15-4, 15-6 and one for the knob, I think (more Cribbage, sorry)

I like this nemesis lark, even if I am 3rd nemesis

So I think we can now put this to bed can't we? SP is for recruitment and retention and you will lose it if you bang your chit in. This may seem harsh as the rules have changed, but the rules will always change - some dip in more than others! (e.g. I was told that I would get a certain pension when I left the service but that is about to change, for the worse - that's life in a blue one and there's nothing I can do about it except suck it up buttercup, live with it and re-plan for my new pension forecast)

Now, I'm off to the mess for a cup of coffee (which my mess fees have paid for) and to watch some Sky Sports, have a good evening everyone

Actually, I'm not sure if it is bollox, in order to "Qualify" for your SSP(D), the diver is required to demonstrate core skills and pass a "qualifying exam" every 4 months (might have changed, Frogman to advise). So whilst the MOD might wish to say it's a retetion incentive, it is actually used as a core skills exam which will be removed instantly upon failure of the re qualifying exam. Fuck all to do with retention.

Originally Posted by Spidiver

Actually, I'm not sure if it is bollox, in order to "Qualify" for your SSP(D), the diver is required to demonstrate core skills and pass a "qualifying exam" every 4 months (might have changed, Frogman to advise). So whilst the MOD might wish to say it's a retetion incentive, it is actually used as a core skills exam which will be removed instantly upon failure of the re qualifying exam. Fuck all to do with retention.

These are the rules for keeping the pay, as I said look at N_Gs post as he sums it up nicely regarding the skills/cost of training etc. Basically if you can't keep up with your skills you are of no use to the branch and there is no point retaining you - this from someone fairly high in the 'D' branch today and a knowledgeable member of this site.

It is the same with anyone who becomes medically unable to do the job that they are getting SP for, if you can't do it the MOD won't pay to keep you in the role as they aren't retaining you there (that is the basic version of how it works, it's actually pretty complicated). It's the policy, not my opinion

So, I stand by my last post.