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Originally Posted by Lamri

Come on guys, lets not turn this into a slanging match
We can't all get on all of the time, I'm a prime example of that!
These forums are full of posts that have two or more people arguing on one subject and completely in tune on another!

Well made point Lam; what I really object to though are these eedjit posts from people like WD who take a serious point made on a serious subject and reduce them to personal attacks. Put in a nutshell; WD can go kiss my round, brown and corrugated if he thinks he is going to get away with it

RM

Originally Posted by "Bergen

people like WD who take a serious point made on a serious subject and reduce them to personal attacks. Put in a nutshell; WD can go kiss my round, brown and corrugated if he thinks he is going to get away with it RM

Good grief, did my post upset you Bergan? I find it hard to equate "Wayhay, its the Oil_Slick and Bergan Anti-Israel Show. How many more interesting facts can the dynamic duo Google?" as a personal attack, but your response "It irks me just a tad when morons like your good self" probably does come into that category.

If you're going to post something that others may find contentious or otherwise then surely you have to expect comments that you may or may not agree with otherwise why post?

Back to the issue in hand, the much vaunted Israeli Defence Forces…

Apart from the US DoD who seem to have a permanent hard on for the IDF, and Turkey who are busy supressing the Kurds, (Apatheid SA also loved the IDF too, no surprise there), does the rest of the worlds 'grown up' Armed Forces feel some need to train with or think they can gain something from training with the IDF?

Nope… go figure.


There has been lots of talk about how the IDF really acts and behaves over the years, but only recently have former IDF personnel felt brave enough too speak out, (and risk a long jail term), and it does not make nice reading.


After 50+ years of playing the 'the world owes us special treatment because of what the Nazis did' card, it seems the IDF would fit right in with the Reichs Fuehrers finest.

WD does have a valid point regardless, I have yet to see in any of these posts where Bergen and OS try their best to denounce the Israeli's that they also denounce the poor pathetic brainwashed Palestinian teenagers who straps on a few pounds of explosives and makes there way to a non military target and proceeds to blow up women and children, I suppose they are allowed because of the past transgressions of said Jews...rose coloured glasses come to mind...

Originally Posted by AfterSSE

WD does have a valid point regardless, I have yet to see in any of these posts where Bergen and OS try their best to denounce the Israeli's that they also denounce the poor pathetic brainwashed Palestinian teenagers who straps on a few pounds of explosives and makes there way to a non military target and proceeds to blow up women and children, I suppose they are allowed because of the past transgressions of said Jews...rose coloured glasses come to mind...

Well lets see, you invade my country, treat me like shit, abuse, torture my people, kill large numbers of my women and children, destroy houses to 'encourage les autes' and leave me living a life devoid of any hope… well guess what? You don't exactly leave me many options do you?

I can live like a dog on my knees or die like a man on my feet.


And as for the Isaelies killed? Funny how when a bomber kills a single Israeli woman or child we have the Israelis howling from the rooftops about the 'save and barbaric palestinian terrorists', yet oddly enough, when an Israeli Hellfire missile is fired into a block of flats to kill a sniper and takes out a dozen wholely innocent men, women and children they dismiss it as 'collateral damage'.

Originally Posted by Oil_Slick

Well lets see, you invade my country, treat me like shit, abuse, torture my people, kill large numbers of my women and children, destroy houses to 'encourage les autes' and leave me living a life devoid of any hope… well guess what? You don't exactly leave me many options do you?

I can live like a dog on my knees or die like a man on my feet.

Hmmm, you can use that for just about every country on this planet, lets see the English can be thrown in for some of that, North America comes to mind, lets see the natives were there first, and along comes the Europeans, so by your reckoning the natives here should be lobbing bombs at Parliament or Buckingham Palace, or infiltrating as tourists with strapped explosives and setting them off in downtown London, or the Irish being persecuted and hounded down by Cromwell and his buddies, or (pick any country in Africa) or Australia, or China, lets see the Opium Barons didn't like the Chinese undercutting their profits, so decided to start a war, which in the long run worked out quite well for the Chinese...

Oh and then there's India and Ceylon, or Burma and a few other countries, for a learned fellow you do seem to forget that a lot of what you say about the Israeli's can be applied to yourself, so what's that saying? Those that live in glass houses....

And just to finish off, while the Nazi's were implementing the Grand Design, where were the two faced politicians then?
They spent years prior to hostilities breaking out being persecuted and yet "civilized" countries like Britain stood fast and allowed the atrocities to take place, if I were a survivor of the Holocaust and I set foot on promised land and you stood in my way to realising my dream, then sunshine your history, you are either with us or against us, so in that regard I can fully understand their need to establish a place to live...lets not forget the UK wasn't really forthcoming in providing a safe haven for them and to our shame neither did Canada, for that matter no country stepped up to help them.

So conspiracy theories aside, and I in no way give the Israeli's a clean slate as they are responsible for some bad stuff, but until either side can sit down without interference (Syria/Egypt/Jordan/Iran/Saudi Arabia/Yemen/Kuwait/USA) this will not get resolved.

Originally Posted by Lamri

[Who invaded who ?
After so many Jews were SLAUGHTERED by Europeans in the first half of the Twentieth Century, is it any wonder AT ALL that they went BACK HOME?

No problem with the fact that Europeans - well, Nazis - murdered any Jews they could round up, but what is now Israel was previously Palestine and the idea that it's OK to divide and displace half a population on purely religious grounds is plain ridiculous, without expecting the displaced to take offence. In biblical time, the 12 tribes of Israel were themselves displaced many times, whether by the Romans, the Egyptians or more or less any other civilisation of the time. The Jewish diaspora set up in many other countries, so the current Israel was never their home to go back to.

I have already posted this about "Palestine" but obviously you either haven't read it OR ignored it.

Jews had lived in "Eretz Yisrael (the land of Israel, called "Palestine" by the Romans and Greeks) since about 1200 B.C.E. The land of Israel was at a crossroads of the Middle East and the Mediterranean and was therefore conquered many times: by Egyptians, Hittites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Seleucid Greeks and Romans, as well as invading Philistines. Of these, only the Jews made the land into their national home.


I say again, they just went HOME!!