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Re: 1919 Diary ID
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:45 pm
Naval_Gazer & List,
Thanks for filling in on HMS Odin and the S.S. Partridge II. It has struck me more than once the great contrast of ship design Denn must have witnessed in the Malta of 1919. I assume from the mast and rigging shown in the photograph of HMS Odin's sister ship HMS Espiegle that they would both have been capable of carrying sail? It must have been a fantastic sight for Denn to watch the old and new designs at anchor in the Grande Harbour together - real change before his very eyes.
Could the ‘illness’, which took the lives of the two crew from 'S.S. Partridge II' be the 1918 Flu Pandemic? I note from Denn's diary that he spent two periods in hospital with flu-like symptoms:
1) Tuesday, March 11th - Monday, March 17th
2) Wednesday, June 4th - Tuesday, 10th June
When I first came across these two episodes, I wondered why Denn needed to go to hospital with what sounded like a common flu bug - until I remembered that this was 1919 not 2009 and the 'Spanish Flu' had already killed millions worldwide over the preceding few months.
With regard to General Trepoff, I found this NYT article in their archives which refers to the death of a General Trepoff on 15th September 1906 - obviously not Denn's General Trepoff.
I then found this article, also from the NYT archives, which I think is Denn's Trepoff - scroll down to the bottom of the page. The www.alexanderpalace.org forum has still not produced any additional information - I set up shop here.
Nothing further on the 'Padre' either but I'll do some more digging over the long weekend.
Regards,
Pat
Edit inserted @ 00:53 23-10-09:
Denn may have have got the spelling wrong when he was referring to this guy, Alexander Fyodorovitch Trepov. If it is this guy, why is Denn referring to him as 'General' Trepoff'? I suspect the surname 'Trepoff' and 'Trepov' are interchangeable.
Pat
_________________
Web: whitebeamimages.ie
Email: pat @ whitebeamimages.ie
Thanks for filling in on HMS Odin and the S.S. Partridge II. It has struck me more than once the great contrast of ship design Denn must have witnessed in the Malta of 1919. I assume from the mast and rigging shown in the photograph of HMS Odin's sister ship HMS Espiegle that they would both have been capable of carrying sail? It must have been a fantastic sight for Denn to watch the old and new designs at anchor in the Grande Harbour together - real change before his very eyes.
Could the ‘illness’, which took the lives of the two crew from 'S.S. Partridge II' be the 1918 Flu Pandemic? I note from Denn's diary that he spent two periods in hospital with flu-like symptoms:
1) Tuesday, March 11th - Monday, March 17th
2) Wednesday, June 4th - Tuesday, 10th June
When I first came across these two episodes, I wondered why Denn needed to go to hospital with what sounded like a common flu bug - until I remembered that this was 1919 not 2009 and the 'Spanish Flu' had already killed millions worldwide over the preceding few months.
With regard to General Trepoff, I found this NYT article in their archives which refers to the death of a General Trepoff on 15th September 1906 - obviously not Denn's General Trepoff.
I then found this article, also from the NYT archives, which I think is Denn's Trepoff - scroll down to the bottom of the page. The www.alexanderpalace.org forum has still not produced any additional information - I set up shop here.
Nothing further on the 'Padre' either but I'll do some more digging over the long weekend.
Regards,
Pat
Edit inserted @ 00:53 23-10-09:
Denn may have have got the spelling wrong when he was referring to this guy, Alexander Fyodorovitch Trepov. If it is this guy, why is Denn referring to him as 'General' Trepoff'? I suspect the surname 'Trepoff' and 'Trepov' are interchangeable.
Pat
_________________
Web: whitebeamimages.ie
Email: pat @ whitebeamimages.ie
sea_mine
- Posts: 110
- Joined: Sep 03, 2009
- Location: Co. Kilkenny, IRELAND
-
Re: 1919 Diary ID
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:07 pm
Pat - With regard to Odin and Espiegle carrying sail, the Wiki entry for Cadmus Class sloops I cited earlier states:
Another interesting snippet is that HMS Espiegle was the last RN ship built with a figurehead.
I concur with your suspicion that the two casualties of Oct 1918 in SS Partridge II probably succumbed to the Spanish flu pandemic which reached its peak in the winter of 1918 (link):
It may well be that Denn was suspected of suffering from the same disease, thus his hospitalisation and possible isolation.
If you desire confirmation of Halliday's status as an RN Chaplain, I suggest you call the RN Museum Library (023 92 723795) or Naval Historical Branch (023 92 724327 or 725300), both in Portsmouth Naval Base, and ask one of the curators to look him up in the Navy Lists covering the period.
The interchangeability of Trepoff and Trepov is confirmed here.
_________________
"The British Army should be a projectile to be fired by the Navy." Sir Edward Grey, British Foreign Secretary 1905-1916.
Wikipedia:
Sail plan
As designed and built the class was fitted with a barquentine-rigged sailplan. After HMS Condor was lost in a gale in 1901, the Admiralty abandoned sails entirely. Espiegle was never fitted with sails, and all other ships of the class had their sails removed before 1914.
As designed and built the class was fitted with a barquentine-rigged sailplan. After HMS Condor was lost in a gale in 1901, the Admiralty abandoned sails entirely. Espiegle was never fitted with sails, and all other ships of the class had their sails removed before 1914.
Another interesting snippet is that HMS Espiegle was the last RN ship built with a figurehead.
I concur with your suspicion that the two casualties of Oct 1918 in SS Partridge II probably succumbed to the Spanish flu pandemic which reached its peak in the winter of 1918 (link):
Stanford.edu:
The influenza pandemic of 1918-1919 killed more people than the Great War, known today as World War I (WWI), at somewhere between 20 and 40 million people. It has been cited as the most devastating epidemic in recorded world history. More people died of influenza in a single year than in four-years of the Black Death Bubonic Plague from 1347 to 1351. Known as "Spanish Flu" or "La Grippe" the influenza of 1918-1919 was a global disaster... The influenza pandemic circled the globe. Most of humanity felt the effects of this strain of the influenza virus. It spread following the path of its human carriers, along trade routes and shipping lines... The Great War, with its mass movements of men in armies and aboard ships, probably aided in its rapid diffusion and attack.
It may well be that Denn was suspected of suffering from the same disease, thus his hospitalisation and possible isolation.
If you desire confirmation of Halliday's status as an RN Chaplain, I suggest you call the RN Museum Library (023 92 723795) or Naval Historical Branch (023 92 724327 or 725300), both in Portsmouth Naval Base, and ask one of the curators to look him up in the Navy Lists covering the period.
The interchangeability of Trepoff and Trepov is confirmed here.
_________________
"The British Army should be a projectile to be fired by the Navy." Sir Edward Grey, British Foreign Secretary 1905-1916.
Naval_Gazer
- Posts: 2011
- Joined: Jan 19, 2007
- Location: Vernon in spirit
-
Re: 1919 Diary ID
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:08 pm
Naval_Gazer & List,
Yes, sorry, I did see the paragraph about the sail plan of the two sisters, Odin and Espiegle - what I was wondering was if, because of the removal of sails, did that mean they could ever be re-fitted with sail - i.e. what was the purpose of retaining the masts after the sails were removed?
Still no wiser about 'General Trepoff' but I am confident that there is enough in the entries form April 26th and April 30th to put this to bed soon.
Thanks for the confirmation of the two versions of the surname - that had me thrown for a couple of hours the other night
I also appreciate the contact details for the RN Museum Library and Naval Historical Branch - I'll add them both to my list of contacts.
Found this short extract from the entry for Thursday 15th May 1919:
Another possible flu victim. I wondered who he was until I found his death listed here on the Malta Family History site - it appears that he was the Commander of HMS Egmont, the Malta Base Ship.
There are some interesting stories about other buriels at the Kalkara Naval Cemetery on this page also on the Malta Family History site.
I was reading the entries for the month of June last night and found several references to Denn and some buddies commencing long distance swimming in the Valletta harbour area. This reminded me about a story that I was told about how Denn taught his own children to swim long distances in his native Waterford. He tied a rope around their waist and made them swim across the River Suir, just upstream of the bridge. I often look across this stretch of water in the mornings while stuck in traffic - it must be at least 200 - 250 yards across, with a very strong current flowing. Nobody seems to know how old the children were at the time this endurance training was going on, but how times have changed - All hell breaks loose in my house when we try to get our six year old to wash his hair
Regards,
Pat
_________________
Web: whitebeamimages.ie
Email: pat @ whitebeamimages.ie
Yes, sorry, I did see the paragraph about the sail plan of the two sisters, Odin and Espiegle - what I was wondering was if, because of the removal of sails, did that mean they could ever be re-fitted with sail - i.e. what was the purpose of retaining the masts after the sails were removed?
Still no wiser about 'General Trepoff' but I am confident that there is enough in the entries form April 26th and April 30th to put this to bed soon.
Thanks for the confirmation of the two versions of the surname - that had me thrown for a couple of hours the other night
I also appreciate the contact details for the RN Museum Library and Naval Historical Branch - I'll add them both to my list of contacts.Found this short extract from the entry for Thursday 15th May 1919:
Quote:
...Commander Tindall died in Bighi Hospital.
Another possible flu victim. I wondered who he was until I found his death listed here on the Malta Family History site - it appears that he was the Commander of HMS Egmont, the Malta Base Ship.
There are some interesting stories about other buriels at the Kalkara Naval Cemetery on this page also on the Malta Family History site.
I was reading the entries for the month of June last night and found several references to Denn and some buddies commencing long distance swimming in the Valletta harbour area. This reminded me about a story that I was told about how Denn taught his own children to swim long distances in his native Waterford. He tied a rope around their waist and made them swim across the River Suir, just upstream of the bridge. I often look across this stretch of water in the mornings while stuck in traffic - it must be at least 200 - 250 yards across, with a very strong current flowing. Nobody seems to know how old the children were at the time this endurance training was going on, but how times have changed - All hell breaks loose in my house when we try to get our six year old to wash his hair
Regards,
Pat
_________________
Web: whitebeamimages.ie
Email: pat @ whitebeamimages.ie
sea_mine- Posts: 110
- Joined: Sep 03, 2009
- Location: Co. Kilkenny, IRELAND
-
Re: 1919 Diary ID
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:15 am
Hi List,
I have just put out another line on General Trepoff in the history section of the Russia.com forum here.
Pat
_________________
Web: whitebeamimages.ie
Email: pat @ whitebeamimages.ie
I have just put out another line on General Trepoff in the history section of the Russia.com forum here.
Pat
_________________
Web: whitebeamimages.ie
Email: pat @ whitebeamimages.ie
sea_mine- Posts: 110
- Joined: Sep 03, 2009
- Location: Co. Kilkenny, IRELAND
-
Re: 1919 Diary ID
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:47 pm
Pat - I have deduced that the Revd. Halliday must have been an M.A. (Master of Arts) and S.C.F (Senior Chaplain to the Forces).
The only clue I can find to explain the Admiralty's retention of masts and yards without sails is here:
Since the masts of the Cadmus Class sloops were intrinsic in their design, they were probably just left in situ, despite the lack of sails, rather than being removed thus spoiling the lines of the ships. The real death knell for such masts and their accompanying rigging was the introduction of centreline gun mountings.
With regard to our suspicions that the two casualties among the crew of SS Partridge II in Oct 1918 were victims of the Spanish Flu pandemic, the scale of burials at the Kalkara Naval Cemetery (link) during the same month certainly supports this theory:
Similarly, the death rate still seems to have been unusually high during Denn's incarceration in hospital in 1919 during the months of March and June, respectively, although it was obviously tapering off:
Some of these deaths could have been caused by TB, Diptheria or any of the other diseases prevalent at the time but Spanish Flu must be the chief suspect in view of the ages and status of the victims. Denn seems lucky to have escaped with his life.
_________________
"The British Army should be a projectile to be fired by the Navy." Sir Edward Grey, British Foreign Secretary 1905-1916.
The only clue I can find to explain the Admiralty's retention of masts and yards without sails is here:
Wapedia:
...During the 1860s, steam engines improved with the adoption of double-expansion steam engines, which used 30-40% less coal than earlier models. The Royal Navy decided to switch to the double-expansion engine in 1871, and by 1875 they were widespread. However, this development alone was not enough to herald the end of the mast. Whether this was due to a conservative desire to retain sails, or was a rational response to the operational and strategic situation, is a matter of debate. A steam-only fleet would require a network of coaling stations worldwide, which would need to be fortified at great expense to stop them falling into enemy hands. Just as significantly, because of unsolved problems with the technology of the boilers which provided steam for the engines, the performance of double-expansion engines was rarely as good in practice as it was in theory...
Since the masts of the Cadmus Class sloops were intrinsic in their design, they were probably just left in situ, despite the lack of sails, rather than being removed thus spoiling the lines of the ships. The real death knell for such masts and their accompanying rigging was the introduction of centreline gun mountings.
With regard to our suspicions that the two casualties among the crew of SS Partridge II in Oct 1918 were victims of the Spanish Flu pandemic, the scale of burials at the Kalkara Naval Cemetery (link) during the same month certainly supports this theory:
Malta Family History:
Oct 1918
1 Oct -AUSTIN, Ernest W. AB, HMS Wear, aged 26 years, the husband of Gladys Mildred Austin, of Wheeler’s Farm, Clanfield, Oxfordshire.
3 Oct - GRIGSON, Mabel Edith. Nursing Sister, Queen Alexandra’s Royal Naval Nursing Service, Royal Naval Hospital Bighi, aged 35 years, the daughter of George and Esther Grigson. Born 24th November 1884.
4 Oct - HUGGETT, Raby, Signalman, J/17499, HMS Egmont. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital, aged 21 years.
4 Oct - SOLOMON, Maurice. Telegraphist, London Z/6184, R.N.V.R., HMS Queen (Egmont), aged 22 years, the son of Lewis and Hannah Solomon, of 4 Colberg Place, Stamford Hill, London. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital.
4 Oct - THOMSON, Charles Wallace. Lieutenant, Royal Naval Reserve, British Consulate Syracuse, HMS Egmont, aged 32 years. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital.
6 Oct - BLAIR, George Wilson (William). Skipper, R.N.R., HMS Firefly, aged 37 years, the son of James Blair. The husband of Henrietta Blair, of 15 Aldwych Street, South Shields. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital.
8 Oct - COOK, William Richard. Gunner, 7088, 3rd R.M.Batt, Royal Marines, aged 41 years, the son of Mr and Mrs Cook, of 37 Whateley Road, Penge, Beckenham, Kent.
8 Oct - DAVIS, George Frederick. Deckhand, 17689/D.A., RNR, HMS William Garrick, aged 35 years, the husband of Amy Phoebe Davis, of 36 Johnson Street, New Cleethorpes, Grimsby.
11 Oct - BISHOP, Charles P. Private, Ply/19130, Royal Marines Light Infantry, HMS Egmont/Caesar.
11 Oct - WOODWARD, William. Chargeman of Fitters, Gunmaking Department, HM Dockyard, aged 54 years. Lived at 46 Strada San Filippo, Senglea. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital. The father of Mr. & Mrs. M.C.Buckland, Miss Elsie Woodward of London, and William Woodward in Canada
12 Oct - LAURENCE, Benjamin. Private, Ply/13379, Royal Marines Light Infantry, HMS Caesar, aged 32 years. His mother Mrs. Ann Laurence lived at Littewood Lodge, West Derby, Nr.Liverpool. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital.
12 Oct - NEWTON, William AB, J/39823, HMS Caesar. His mother was Mrs. Ester Page, 62 Nichol Lane, Bromley, Kent.
12 Oct - WEBB, Henry. Musician, RMB/1960, HMS Caesar, Royal Marine Band. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital, aged 21 years
13 Oct - CRAFTER, Francis David. Musician, 2136, Royal Marines Band, HMS Caesar, aged 20 years, the son of James William and Mary Ann Crafter, of 25 Waldo Road, Bromley, Kent.
14 Oct - BAKER, Thomas. Leading Stoker, SS/113134, HMS Caesar, aged 28 years, the son of J. and I. Baker, of New Cottages, Caerwent, Chepstow, Monmouthshire. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital.
14 Oct - GREENWOOD, John. M/14473, HMS Caesar, Sick Berth Attendant. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital, aged 26 years.
14 Oct - ROSS, James Anderson. Private, Ply/17990, Royal Marine Light Infantry, HMS Caesar. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital
15 Oct - BAILEY, Stoker 1st Class, SS/109846, HMS Caesar, the husband of Kate Bee (formerly Bailey), of 41 George Street, Stonehouse, Plymouth. Died of pneumonia in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital.
15 Oct - WHARF, Rowland Wilks. Engineman, 1084/T.S., RNR, HMS Queen, (HMT Eva Wales) aged 25 years, the son of John Henry and Sarah Jane Wharf, of 128 Clarendon Street, Hull. Died of pneumonia.
16 Oct - PANAGON, John Seaman Guner, Lemnos.
16 Oct - SHAW, Arthur S. Armourer’s Crew, M/25427, HMS Caesar. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital.
16 Oct - TAYLOR, William K. AB, SS/1374, HMS Caesar, aged 34 years, the son of Sarah Ann Bagshaw (formerly Taylor ), of 18 Old Road, Heaton Norris, Stockport, and the late Reuben Taylor. Born at Reddish, Stockport. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital
18 Oct - BROWN, Arthur B. Stoker, SS/114925, HMS Pentstemon. In Bighi Royal Naval Hospital. His mother was Mrs. M.E.Brown, 39 Crowle Street, Hedon Road, Hull.
18 Oct - HARDY, Joseph AB, J/41148, HMS Caesar, aged 19 years, the son of George A. and Eliza Hardy, of Ivy Lane, Elton, Matlock, Derbyshire. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital
19 Oct - PARAULOS, Michael. Profiter, Greek S Lemnos.
21 Oct - DEGIORGIO, Alfred. AB, J/266, HMS Egmont, aged 30 years, the son of Angelo and Concetta Cammileri Degiorgio. The husband of Antonia Degiorgio, of 13 Strada Leone, Cospicua.
21 Oct - JACKSON, R. Apprentice Electrical Fitter, HM Dockyard.
21 Oct - SHEEHAN, Patrick. Stoker 1st Class, K/3329, HMS Berberis, aged 29 years, the son of John and Mary Sheehan, of Granasig, Kilbrittain, Co.Cork, Ireland.
22 Oct - JACKSON, Lily A. aged 21 years, of Senglea.
26 Oct - TANTI, Giuseppe. Stoker 1st Class, K/43688, HMS Egmont.
29 Oct - JACKSON, Edgar Boyce. Child.
31 Oct - HOWLAND, Frederick J. Stoker Petty Officer, 234803, HMS Valerian.
1 Oct -AUSTIN, Ernest W. AB, HMS Wear, aged 26 years, the husband of Gladys Mildred Austin, of Wheeler’s Farm, Clanfield, Oxfordshire.
3 Oct - GRIGSON, Mabel Edith. Nursing Sister, Queen Alexandra’s Royal Naval Nursing Service, Royal Naval Hospital Bighi, aged 35 years, the daughter of George and Esther Grigson. Born 24th November 1884.
4 Oct - HUGGETT, Raby, Signalman, J/17499, HMS Egmont. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital, aged 21 years.
4 Oct - SOLOMON, Maurice. Telegraphist, London Z/6184, R.N.V.R., HMS Queen (Egmont), aged 22 years, the son of Lewis and Hannah Solomon, of 4 Colberg Place, Stamford Hill, London. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital.
4 Oct - THOMSON, Charles Wallace. Lieutenant, Royal Naval Reserve, British Consulate Syracuse, HMS Egmont, aged 32 years. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital.
6 Oct - BLAIR, George Wilson (William). Skipper, R.N.R., HMS Firefly, aged 37 years, the son of James Blair. The husband of Henrietta Blair, of 15 Aldwych Street, South Shields. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital.
8 Oct - COOK, William Richard. Gunner, 7088, 3rd R.M.Batt, Royal Marines, aged 41 years, the son of Mr and Mrs Cook, of 37 Whateley Road, Penge, Beckenham, Kent.
8 Oct - DAVIS, George Frederick. Deckhand, 17689/D.A., RNR, HMS William Garrick, aged 35 years, the husband of Amy Phoebe Davis, of 36 Johnson Street, New Cleethorpes, Grimsby.
11 Oct - BISHOP, Charles P. Private, Ply/19130, Royal Marines Light Infantry, HMS Egmont/Caesar.
11 Oct - WOODWARD, William. Chargeman of Fitters, Gunmaking Department, HM Dockyard, aged 54 years. Lived at 46 Strada San Filippo, Senglea. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital. The father of Mr. & Mrs. M.C.Buckland, Miss Elsie Woodward of London, and William Woodward in Canada
12 Oct - LAURENCE, Benjamin. Private, Ply/13379, Royal Marines Light Infantry, HMS Caesar, aged 32 years. His mother Mrs. Ann Laurence lived at Littewood Lodge, West Derby, Nr.Liverpool. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital.
12 Oct - NEWTON, William AB, J/39823, HMS Caesar. His mother was Mrs. Ester Page, 62 Nichol Lane, Bromley, Kent.
12 Oct - WEBB, Henry. Musician, RMB/1960, HMS Caesar, Royal Marine Band. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital, aged 21 years
13 Oct - CRAFTER, Francis David. Musician, 2136, Royal Marines Band, HMS Caesar, aged 20 years, the son of James William and Mary Ann Crafter, of 25 Waldo Road, Bromley, Kent.
14 Oct - BAKER, Thomas. Leading Stoker, SS/113134, HMS Caesar, aged 28 years, the son of J. and I. Baker, of New Cottages, Caerwent, Chepstow, Monmouthshire. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital.
14 Oct - GREENWOOD, John. M/14473, HMS Caesar, Sick Berth Attendant. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital, aged 26 years.
14 Oct - ROSS, James Anderson. Private, Ply/17990, Royal Marine Light Infantry, HMS Caesar. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital
15 Oct - BAILEY, Stoker 1st Class, SS/109846, HMS Caesar, the husband of Kate Bee (formerly Bailey), of 41 George Street, Stonehouse, Plymouth. Died of pneumonia in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital.
15 Oct - WHARF, Rowland Wilks. Engineman, 1084/T.S., RNR, HMS Queen, (HMT Eva Wales) aged 25 years, the son of John Henry and Sarah Jane Wharf, of 128 Clarendon Street, Hull. Died of pneumonia.
16 Oct - PANAGON, John Seaman Guner, Lemnos.
16 Oct - SHAW, Arthur S. Armourer’s Crew, M/25427, HMS Caesar. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital.
16 Oct - TAYLOR, William K. AB, SS/1374, HMS Caesar, aged 34 years, the son of Sarah Ann Bagshaw (formerly Taylor ), of 18 Old Road, Heaton Norris, Stockport, and the late Reuben Taylor. Born at Reddish, Stockport. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital
18 Oct - BROWN, Arthur B. Stoker, SS/114925, HMS Pentstemon. In Bighi Royal Naval Hospital. His mother was Mrs. M.E.Brown, 39 Crowle Street, Hedon Road, Hull.
18 Oct - HARDY, Joseph AB, J/41148, HMS Caesar, aged 19 years, the son of George A. and Eliza Hardy, of Ivy Lane, Elton, Matlock, Derbyshire. Died in Bighi Royal Naval Hospital
19 Oct - PARAULOS, Michael. Profiter, Greek S Lemnos.
21 Oct - DEGIORGIO, Alfred. AB, J/266, HMS Egmont, aged 30 years, the son of Angelo and Concetta Cammileri Degiorgio. The husband of Antonia Degiorgio, of 13 Strada Leone, Cospicua.
21 Oct - JACKSON, R. Apprentice Electrical Fitter, HM Dockyard.
21 Oct - SHEEHAN, Patrick. Stoker 1st Class, K/3329, HMS Berberis, aged 29 years, the son of John and Mary Sheehan, of Granasig, Kilbrittain, Co.Cork, Ireland.
22 Oct - JACKSON, Lily A. aged 21 years, of Senglea.
26 Oct - TANTI, Giuseppe. Stoker 1st Class, K/43688, HMS Egmont.
29 Oct - JACKSON, Edgar Boyce. Child.
31 Oct - HOWLAND, Frederick J. Stoker Petty Officer, 234803, HMS Valerian.
Similarly, the death rate still seems to have been unusually high during Denn's incarceration in hospital in 1919 during the months of March and June, respectively, although it was obviously tapering off:
Malta Family History:
Mar 1919
6 Mar - FRIEND, Frederick J. Private, CH/14014, Royal Marines Light Infantry, HMS Abercrombie, the husband of Mrs. L. Friend, of 93 Skinner Street, Gillingham, Kent.
8 Mar - LAKE, William Theophilus. ERA, M/9379, HM Submarine E11, aged 25 years, the son of Elizabeth Ann and William Jackman Lake. Born in Godalming, Surrey.
13 Mar - HIGH, Claude Hugh. AB, J/18554, HMS Humber.
14 Mar - WILSON, Thomas S. Leading Stoker, K/14988, HMS Campanula.
17 Mar - HURFORD, William John. Stoker, HMS Veronica.
17 Mar - WILLIE, J.H. Stoker 1st Class, K/30108, HMS Veronica.
19 Mar - GRANT, William John. Chief-Stoker, 290035, HMS Gilia, aged 40 years, the husband of Frances Mary Grant, of 17 Love Lane, Weymouth.
19 Mar - PASCOE, Nicholas. Deckhand, 6592/D.A., RNR, HMS Firefly.
20 Mar - FRIEND, Frederick J. Private, CH/14014, Royal Marines Light Infantry, HMS Abercrombie, the husband of Mrs. L. Friend, of 93 Skinner Street, Gillingham, Kent.
28 Mar - JAMES, William Smith. Skipper, Mercantile Marine, HM Trawler James Connor, aged 25 years. His widow lived at 18 Glenmere Terrace, Underwood, Brixham, Devon. Died in Bighi Hospital.
29 Mar - CLARKE, Frederick. Deckhand, 15332/D.A., HMS Firefly (Egmont), aged 25 years, the son of Charles Clarke, 14 Freeston Street, New Cleethorpes, Grimsby.
29 Mar - McCABE, William John. Private, Ply/15918, Royal Marines Light Infantry, HMS Foresight, aged 25 years, the son of the late James and Lena McCabe, of Belfast.
Jun 1919
1 Jun - TALBOT, Ernest Thomas Sillick. Stoker 1st Class, SS/102740, HMS Minerva (Mimosa), aged 33 years, the son of Frank and Susan Talbot of Devonport. The husband of Florence Ada Talbot, of 32 Montreal Road, Tilbury, Essex.
12 Jun - MOBBS, William Edwin. OS, J/91196, HMS Benbow.
23 Jun - FUSSELL, Bertram Robert. Chief-Writer, 347127, HMS Egmont, aged 35 years.
27 Jun - SAVAGE, Joseph J. AB, J/44609, HMS Hope.
6 Mar - FRIEND, Frederick J. Private, CH/14014, Royal Marines Light Infantry, HMS Abercrombie, the husband of Mrs. L. Friend, of 93 Skinner Street, Gillingham, Kent.
8 Mar - LAKE, William Theophilus. ERA, M/9379, HM Submarine E11, aged 25 years, the son of Elizabeth Ann and William Jackman Lake. Born in Godalming, Surrey.
13 Mar - HIGH, Claude Hugh. AB, J/18554, HMS Humber.
14 Mar - WILSON, Thomas S. Leading Stoker, K/14988, HMS Campanula.
17 Mar - HURFORD, William John. Stoker, HMS Veronica.
17 Mar - WILLIE, J.H. Stoker 1st Class, K/30108, HMS Veronica.
19 Mar - GRANT, William John. Chief-Stoker, 290035, HMS Gilia, aged 40 years, the husband of Frances Mary Grant, of 17 Love Lane, Weymouth.
19 Mar - PASCOE, Nicholas. Deckhand, 6592/D.A., RNR, HMS Firefly.
20 Mar - FRIEND, Frederick J. Private, CH/14014, Royal Marines Light Infantry, HMS Abercrombie, the husband of Mrs. L. Friend, of 93 Skinner Street, Gillingham, Kent.
28 Mar - JAMES, William Smith. Skipper, Mercantile Marine, HM Trawler James Connor, aged 25 years. His widow lived at 18 Glenmere Terrace, Underwood, Brixham, Devon. Died in Bighi Hospital.
29 Mar - CLARKE, Frederick. Deckhand, 15332/D.A., HMS Firefly (Egmont), aged 25 years, the son of Charles Clarke, 14 Freeston Street, New Cleethorpes, Grimsby.
29 Mar - McCABE, William John. Private, Ply/15918, Royal Marines Light Infantry, HMS Foresight, aged 25 years, the son of the late James and Lena McCabe, of Belfast.
Jun 1919
1 Jun - TALBOT, Ernest Thomas Sillick. Stoker 1st Class, SS/102740, HMS Minerva (Mimosa), aged 33 years, the son of Frank and Susan Talbot of Devonport. The husband of Florence Ada Talbot, of 32 Montreal Road, Tilbury, Essex.
12 Jun - MOBBS, William Edwin. OS, J/91196, HMS Benbow.
23 Jun - FUSSELL, Bertram Robert. Chief-Writer, 347127, HMS Egmont, aged 35 years.
27 Jun - SAVAGE, Joseph J. AB, J/44609, HMS Hope.
Some of these deaths could have been caused by TB, Diptheria or any of the other diseases prevalent at the time but Spanish Flu must be the chief suspect in view of the ages and status of the victims. Denn seems lucky to have escaped with his life.
_________________
"The British Army should be a projectile to be fired by the Navy." Sir Edward Grey, British Foreign Secretary 1905-1916.
Naval_Gazer- Posts: 2011
- Joined: Jan 19, 2007
- Location: Vernon in spirit
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Re: 1919 Diary ID
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:47 pm
Naval_Gazer & List,
Yes, death seemed to stalk Malta during 1919 - if you go to the Indexes page of the Malta Family History site, there are links to all the other cemeteries as well as Kalkara Naval Cemetery.
This Diary really is a gem! - I had not really looked at the entries for July as yet but last night I happened upon Sunday, July 13th 1919 and found this extract:
I am sure this ship's history is well known to most of you guys on this forum, but to me, it was complete astonishment when I read the Wikipedia article on her here. There is even an Irish connection with the Royal Munster Fusiliers and the Royal Dublin Fusiliers. However, the really astonishing thing is the award of six, yes six, Victoria Crosses for actions during three attempted landings from her. This is over half the number awarded for the Battle of Rorke's Drift.
Look at the last paragraph and look at the year and destination - yes it's Malta, 1919
BTW, my gran-uncle, Michael (Mick) Curran fought in Gallipoli and in Palestine with the Royal Irish Rifles.
Regards,
Pat
_________________
Web: whitebeamimages.ie
Email: pat @ whitebeamimages.ie
Yes, death seemed to stalk Malta during 1919 - if you go to the Indexes page of the Malta Family History site, there are links to all the other cemeteries as well as Kalkara Naval Cemetery.
This Diary really is a gem! - I had not really looked at the entries for July as yet but last night I happened upon Sunday, July 13th 1919 and found this extract:
Quote:
...At 1415 Marshall and I went on board the River Clyde of Cape Helles, Gallipoli fame. Passed an hour on board viewing the sights and taking photos of various features of interest. Got a steel shrapnel bullet from her as a momento...
I am sure this ship's history is well known to most of you guys on this forum, but to me, it was complete astonishment when I read the Wikipedia article on her here. There is even an Irish connection with the Royal Munster Fusiliers and the Royal Dublin Fusiliers. However, the really astonishing thing is the award of six, yes six, Victoria Crosses for actions during three attempted landings from her. This is over half the number awarded for the Battle of Rorke's Drift.
Look at the last paragraph and look at the year and destination - yes it's Malta, 1919
BTW, my gran-uncle, Michael (Mick) Curran fought in Gallipoli and in Palestine with the Royal Irish Rifles.
Regards,
Pat
_________________
Web: whitebeamimages.ie
Email: pat @ whitebeamimages.ie
sea_mine- Posts: 110
- Joined: Sep 03, 2009
- Location: Co. Kilkenny, IRELAND
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Re: 1919 Diary ID
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:45 am
Re deaths in Malta, when did we eventually twig that the goats delivering milk on the hoof in Malta were also spreading 'Malta Fever' (brucellosis)? My great uncle Neville Martyn died of it, aged 16 in 1892, while serving as a midshipman in HMS Inflexible (the one before the one that was sunk at Jutland). He seems actually to have died ashore (is the date right for Bighi?) and I have not been able to locate a grave for him although Kalafrana seems to have been the usual place for RN burials then (or am I wrong about that?). In the context of this thread I am wondering if Malta Fever was a cause as well as flu.
_________________
Edmund Burke: 'Wars may be deferred .. but they cannot be wholly avoided .. to purchase present quiet, at the price of future security, is .. a cowardice of the most base and degrading nature."
_________________
Edmund Burke: 'Wars may be deferred .. but they cannot be wholly avoided .. to purchase present quiet, at the price of future security, is .. a cowardice of the most base and degrading nature."
Seaweed- Posts: 1756
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- Location: Near Pompey
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Re: 1919 Diary ID
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:04 am
Seaweed - Your great uncle's death was too early to be registered on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website. I suspect his remains were moved and reinterred in one of the mass graves at Kalkara like several others (link):
RNH Bighi was completed 24 Sep 1832 and closed 17 Sep 1970 (Wiki link).
_________________
"The British Army should be a projectile to be fired by the Navy." Sir Edward Grey, British Foreign Secretary 1905-1916.
Malta Family Histories:
When older cemeteries on Malta were re-developed for other purposes, any remains were brought to Kalkara cemetery, and re-interred in mass graves.
(a) Here buried are those members of the British Services and their families who died between 1865 and 1913 and were formerly interred in Rinella Military cemetery.
(b) Grave No. D. 846. The gravestone says: This stone stands in memory of those originally interred in the cemetery of the Royal Naval Hospital, Bighi, in the years 1846 to 1901. Their names are forever recorded in a memorial book in the church of St. Oswald, Royal Naval Hospital, Malta.
(c) Grave No.D.849. The gravestone says: Removed from Bighi Naval Cemetery December 1968, and re-interred here 14th January 1969.
(a) Here buried are those members of the British Services and their families who died between 1865 and 1913 and were formerly interred in Rinella Military cemetery.
(b) Grave No. D. 846. The gravestone says: This stone stands in memory of those originally interred in the cemetery of the Royal Naval Hospital, Bighi, in the years 1846 to 1901. Their names are forever recorded in a memorial book in the church of St. Oswald, Royal Naval Hospital, Malta.
(c) Grave No.D.849. The gravestone says: Removed from Bighi Naval Cemetery December 1968, and re-interred here 14th January 1969.
RNH Bighi was completed 24 Sep 1832 and closed 17 Sep 1970 (Wiki link).
_________________
"The British Army should be a projectile to be fired by the Navy." Sir Edward Grey, British Foreign Secretary 1905-1916.
Naval_Gazer- Posts: 2011
- Joined: Jan 19, 2007
- Location: Vernon in spirit
-
Re: 1919 Diary ID
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:48 pm
List,
The problem of brucellosis in Malta is referenced in this article on the human form of the disease. I have highlighted the Malta reference in this screen grab from the article:
I know in farm animals, the diagnosis of the disease results in the immediate slaughter of the affected animal(s) in the herd and the entire herd itself if the outbreak is severe enough. Bovine animals in the UK and Ireland are tested for both TB and brucellosis annually.
Regards,
Pat
_________________
Web: whitebeamimages.ie
Email: pat @ whitebeamimages.ie
The problem of brucellosis in Malta is referenced in this article on the human form of the disease. I have highlighted the Malta reference in this screen grab from the article:
I know in farm animals, the diagnosis of the disease results in the immediate slaughter of the affected animal(s) in the herd and the entire herd itself if the outbreak is severe enough. Bovine animals in the UK and Ireland are tested for both TB and brucellosis annually.
Regards,
Pat
_________________
Web: whitebeamimages.ie
Email: pat @ whitebeamimages.ie
sea_mine- Posts: 110
- Joined: Sep 03, 2009
- Location: Co. Kilkenny, IRELAND
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Re: 1919 Diary ID
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:43 am
List,
Another 'Date in History' Denn witnessed while in Malta is related in this extract from the entry for Sunday, 29th June 1919:
The first sentence refers to the lift shown in the post by Naval_Gazer on page 3 of this thread - see here.
I found this site dedicated to Peace Day. Note the reference to the date set aside for the celebrations is some three weeks later on Saturday, 19th July. The site refers to Germany signing the Peace Treaty "at the end of June". Denn's entry in the Diary appears to confirm it was signed on Sunday 29th June. Sure enough, when I checked the entry for Saturday, 19th July, I found Denn up at the crack of dawn:
I assumed, wrongly, that the 'Ajax' referred to by Denn would have been of the same type as her later, more famous WWII descendant, i.e. a light cruiser. However, when I looked her up I found her to be a battleship - her Wikipedia article is here, but is lacking in substance apart from the reference to her being in the Mediterranean and Black Sea in 1919. Can anyone put more light on this ship?
There are some great photographs of her here - anyone able to ID the liner(?) behind her in the first photograph - the last three letters of that ship's name appear to "...NIA"
While reading the entry for Monday, 30th June 1919, I noted this extract:
Upon looking up HMS Ceres, I discovered a ship with a long and varied career - she appears to have visited almost every part of the globe during her WWII duties, including playing what appears to have been some form of traffic control duty off the Normandy invasion beaches in 1944 - see her story here.
Regards,
Pat
_________________
Web: whitebeamimages.ie
Email: pat @ whitebeamimages.ie
Another 'Date in History' Denn witnessed while in Malta is related in this extract from the entry for Sunday, 29th June 1919:
Quote:
...Upper Barracca lift resumed duty today. A salute of 101 guns was fired by Saluting Battery Lascaris Fort, also by Egmont & Ajax in honour of the signing of Peace by the Hun.
The first sentence refers to the lift shown in the post by Naval_Gazer on page 3 of this thread - see here.
I found this site dedicated to Peace Day. Note the reference to the date set aside for the celebrations is some three weeks later on Saturday, 19th July. The site refers to Germany signing the Peace Treaty "at the end of June". Denn's entry in the Diary appears to confirm it was signed on Sunday 29th June. Sure enough, when I checked the entry for Saturday, 19th July, I found Denn up at the crack of dawn:
Quote:
...Up at 0600. Bathed, dressed and had an apple before wandering down to Calcara Gate to superintend the landing of the men for the March Past. These commenced to land at 0730 and had all landed by 0800. Went to the hotel then and had breakfast. Was back there again by 0900. The troops began to appear about 0920 and by 1000 all had gone back to their ships...
and later that evening:
...Went on to Barracca at 2110 and witnessed the searchlight display...
...No attempt made by Maltese to decorate the town in honour of the Peace celebrations...
and later that evening:
...Went on to Barracca at 2110 and witnessed the searchlight display...
...No attempt made by Maltese to decorate the town in honour of the Peace celebrations...
I assumed, wrongly, that the 'Ajax' referred to by Denn would have been of the same type as her later, more famous WWII descendant, i.e. a light cruiser. However, when I looked her up I found her to be a battleship - her Wikipedia article is here, but is lacking in substance apart from the reference to her being in the Mediterranean and Black Sea in 1919. Can anyone put more light on this ship?
There are some great photographs of her here - anyone able to ID the liner(?) behind her in the first photograph - the last three letters of that ship's name appear to "...NIA"
While reading the entry for Monday, 30th June 1919, I noted this extract:
Quote:
...Had a visit from Gunner(T.) of Ceres...
Upon looking up HMS Ceres, I discovered a ship with a long and varied career - she appears to have visited almost every part of the globe during her WWII duties, including playing what appears to have been some form of traffic control duty off the Normandy invasion beaches in 1944 - see her story here.
Regards,
Pat
_________________
Web: whitebeamimages.ie
Email: pat @ whitebeamimages.ie
sea_mine- Posts: 110
- Joined: Sep 03, 2009
- Location: Co. Kilkenny, IRELAND
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Re: 1919 Diary ID
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:48 am
Pat - Several photos of the Centurion/KGV Class battleship HMS Ajax here, including some taken at Malta.
According to the caption accompanying your linked photo, the passenger ship under construction with HMS Ajax at Scotts Shipbuilding in Greenock in 1913 was the short-lived Cunard liner RMS Alaunia (Wiki link):
See here on the Great British Shipwrecks website for further information and photos.
RMS Alaunia
(Great British Shipwrecks website)
Representation of wreck of RMS Alaunia
(Great British Shipwrecks website)
This RMS Alaunia is not to be confused with her Second World War namesake which also gave sterling service successively as an armed merchant cruiser, a repair ship and a depot ship.
I have found this excellent illustrated account by someone who visited Malta in 2007 to find out more about his grandfather's posting there during WWII. It contains some stunning up to date photos of many of the areas upon which we have touched including Fort Angelo, RNH Bighi, Floriana and the Barracca Gardens.
_________________
"The British Army should be a projectile to be fired by the Navy." Sir Edward Grey, British Foreign Secretary 1905-1916.
According to the caption accompanying your linked photo, the passenger ship under construction with HMS Ajax at Scotts Shipbuilding in Greenock in 1913 was the short-lived Cunard liner RMS Alaunia (Wiki link):
Wikipedia:
...Alaunia was launched on 9 June 1913, and made her maiden voyage on 27 December 1913. When World War I began, she was requisitioned as a troopship. The Alaunia was the first Cunard ship to transport Canadian troops. She was sent in the Gallipoli campaign by the summer of 1915. Then she worked on carrying troops to Bombay later the same year. She returned to the North Atlantic and carried troops from Canada and America in 1916.
On 19 September 1916, when she made her voyage from London to New York, she struck a mine on 19 October 1916 off the Royal Sovereign Lightship off Hastings, East Sussex [at the end of her return voyage]. After attempts to beach the ship and tow her to shore with tugs, the captain realized the ship was lost and finally gave the order to abandon ship. Despite the sinking of the vessel, only two crew members were lost.
On 19 September 1916, when she made her voyage from London to New York, she struck a mine on 19 October 1916 off the Royal Sovereign Lightship off Hastings, East Sussex [at the end of her return voyage]. After attempts to beach the ship and tow her to shore with tugs, the captain realized the ship was lost and finally gave the order to abandon ship. Despite the sinking of the vessel, only two crew members were lost.
See here on the Great British Shipwrecks website for further information and photos.
RMS Alaunia
(Great British Shipwrecks website)
Representation of wreck of RMS Alaunia
(Great British Shipwrecks website)
This RMS Alaunia is not to be confused with her Second World War namesake which also gave sterling service successively as an armed merchant cruiser, a repair ship and a depot ship.
I have found this excellent illustrated account by someone who visited Malta in 2007 to find out more about his grandfather's posting there during WWII. It contains some stunning up to date photos of many of the areas upon which we have touched including Fort Angelo, RNH Bighi, Floriana and the Barracca Gardens.
_________________
"The British Army should be a projectile to be fired by the Navy." Sir Edward Grey, British Foreign Secretary 1905-1916.
Naval_Gazer- Posts: 2011
- Joined: Jan 19, 2007
- Location: Vernon in spirit
-
Re: 1919 Diary ID
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:22 pm
Naval_Gazer & List,
Oops - I really need to get these posts done before 0100
Great to see the present day images of the places mentioned by Denn. I was in Malta in 2002 and some of the images I recognise, though my interest during that trip was on locations associated with WWII.
Now that I have had a couple of hours sleep,
I note in the days leading up to the planned searchlight display to celebrate the signing of the Peace Agreement, Denn makes these comments:
Extract form entry for Thursday, 17th July:
and from the entry for Friday, 18th July:
Does anyone know what is meant by 'burning of searchlights'?
I am also wondering why Denn will be carrying a sword on Peace Day - I though only officers would have swords during such ceremonies?
Thanks,
Pat
_________________
Web: whitebeamimages.ie
Email: pat @ whitebeamimages.ie
Oops - I really need to get these posts done before 0100
Great to see the present day images of the places mentioned by Denn. I was in Malta in 2002 and some of the images I recognise, though my interest during that trip was on locations associated with WWII.
Now that I have had a couple of hours sleep,
I note in the days leading up to the planned searchlight display to celebrate the signing of the Peace Agreement, Denn makes these comments:Extract form entry for Thursday, 17th July:
Quote:
...Went on board several ships to see about their searchlights and at 1130 went on to St Elmo steps and picked up B. We had a cag about the burning of searchlights whilst he was rushing round in Petrel...
and from the entry for Friday, 18th July:
Quote:
...Got my sword case, new leather one, from Farrujia. Called on board several ships anent searchlight display afterwards...
Does anyone know what is meant by 'burning of searchlights'?
I am also wondering why Denn will be carrying a sword on Peace Day - I though only officers would have swords during such ceremonies?
Thanks,
Pat
_________________
Web: whitebeamimages.ie
Email: pat @ whitebeamimages.ie
sea_mine- Posts: 110
- Joined: Sep 03, 2009
- Location: Co. Kilkenny, IRELAND
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Re: 1919 Diary ID
Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:29 am
List,
I may have more on Denn's 'General Trepoff'. When I tried for the Wikipedia article on him, I found only this, but note the place where he died in 1928 - Nice, France.
Now take a look at this extract from the Diary for Wednesday, 4th June 1919:
(Note - Denn is collecting his possessions from his room as he is about to enter hospital for the second time in 1919 with flu.)
On a hunch, I tried googling for images under the name "Alexander Trepov" and came up with this page - note the Russian caption underneath the two images on the bottom left. I copied and pasted one of these captions back into Google and found the Russian version of the Wikipedia article here - with Google's attempt at translation - not perfect I know, however, you can see from the last paragraph that this guy is a good candidate for Denn's 'General Trepoff'.
Here again is the extract from the entry for Saturday, 26th April 1919, showing the tie up between Trepoff (Trepov) and the Demidoff family:
The 'Miss Crawshaw' Denn refers to in the top quote appears to be the nanny to Trepoff's gran children as can be deduced from this extract from the entry for Saturday, 17th May 1919:
- though looking at the extract again, that comma could throw a skew ball on that part of my theory
To nail this 'General Trepoff' down, I need to find out:
1) Why is Denn referring to the ex-Premier of Russian, Alexander Trepov as 'General Trepoff'
2) Another source stating that the ex-Premier of Russian, Alexander Trepov passed through Malta in 1919.
Regards,
Pat
_________________
Web: whitebeamimages.ie
Email: pat @ whitebeamimages.ie
I may have more on Denn's 'General Trepoff'. When I tried for the Wikipedia article on him, I found only this, but note the place where he died in 1928 - Nice, France.
Now take a look at this extract from the Diary for Wednesday, 4th June 1919:
(Note - Denn is collecting his possessions from his room as he is about to enter hospital for the second time in 1919 with flu.)
Quote:
...I said good bye to young Demidoffs and to Miss Crashaw before I left hotel. They were leaving for Syracuse by boat during the evening bound for Nice by rail across Italy...
On a hunch, I tried googling for images under the name "Alexander Trepov" and came up with this page - note the Russian caption underneath the two images on the bottom left. I copied and pasted one of these captions back into Google and found the Russian version of the Wikipedia article here - with Google's attempt at translation - not perfect I know, however, you can see from the last paragraph that this guy is a good candidate for Denn's 'General Trepoff'.
Here again is the extract from the entry for Saturday, 26th April 1919, showing the tie up between Trepoff (Trepov) and the Demidoff family:
Quote:
...A number of Russians joined the hotel, amongst them being a General Trepoff with his wife, daughter, 2 gran-children and son-in-law, a prince Demidoff also a Siamese Johnny...
The 'Miss Crawshaw' Denn refers to in the top quote appears to be the nanny to Trepoff's gran children as can be deduced from this extract from the entry for Saturday, 17th May 1919:
Quote:
...After dinner went to see pictures with 2 salvage men, an R.N.R. paymaster sub, Mrs Colson, Miss Crawshaw, the Demidoff governess, and self...
- though looking at the extract again, that comma could throw a skew ball on that part of my theory
To nail this 'General Trepoff' down, I need to find out:
1) Why is Denn referring to the ex-Premier of Russian, Alexander Trepov as 'General Trepoff'
2) Another source stating that the ex-Premier of Russian, Alexander Trepov passed through Malta in 1919.
Regards,
Pat
_________________
Web: whitebeamimages.ie
Email: pat @ whitebeamimages.ie
sea_mine- Posts: 110
- Joined: Sep 03, 2009
- Location: Co. Kilkenny, IRELAND
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Re: 1919 Diary ID
Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:21 pm
Pat - You asked about 'burning searchlights'. There is no mystery behind this. Searchlights are carbon arc lamps that use two carbon rods as electrodes. The rods are touched together to ignite them then slowly drawn apart. The electric current heats and maintains an arc across the gap. The tips of the carbon rods are heated to incandescence, creating light, but are slowly burnt away so they need regularly adjustment to maintain the arc. HMS Vernon, my old alma matter, used to hold highly successful annual searchlight tattoos during the 1970s and '80s. The searchlights, mounted on scaffolding, were manned and operated by T.A. personnel belonging to the last searchlight unit in the British Army (see here).
I hadn't realised the significance of searchlights in warfare until I read this webpage.
You asked about Denn wearing a sword. As a Gunner (T), he was a Warrant Officer. In his day, all naval Warrant Officers wore officers' uniforms, carried swords, were saluted and lived separately from the ship's company. In 1949, the ranks of Warrant Officer (e.g. Gunner (T)) and Commissioned Warrant Officer (e.g. Commissioned Gunner (T)) were changed to 'Commissioned Officer' and 'Senior Commissioned Officer', the latter ranking with but after the rank of Lieutenant, and they were admitted to the wardroom, the WOs' messes closing down. Collectively these officers were known as 'Branch Officers', being retitled 'Special Duties' (SD) officers in 1956. In 1998, the SD list was merged with the General list of officers in the Royal Navy, all officers now having the same opportunity to reach the highest commissioned rank instead of having to stop at Commander.
_________________
"The British Army should be a projectile to be fired by the Navy." Sir Edward Grey, British Foreign Secretary 1905-1916.
I hadn't realised the significance of searchlights in warfare until I read this webpage.
You asked about Denn wearing a sword. As a Gunner (T), he was a Warrant Officer. In his day, all naval Warrant Officers wore officers' uniforms, carried swords, were saluted and lived separately from the ship's company. In 1949, the ranks of Warrant Officer (e.g. Gunner (T)) and Commissioned Warrant Officer (e.g. Commissioned Gunner (T)) were changed to 'Commissioned Officer' and 'Senior Commissioned Officer', the latter ranking with but after the rank of Lieutenant, and they were admitted to the wardroom, the WOs' messes closing down. Collectively these officers were known as 'Branch Officers', being retitled 'Special Duties' (SD) officers in 1956. In 1998, the SD list was merged with the General list of officers in the Royal Navy, all officers now having the same opportunity to reach the highest commissioned rank instead of having to stop at Commander.
_________________
"The British Army should be a projectile to be fired by the Navy." Sir Edward Grey, British Foreign Secretary 1905-1916.
Naval_Gazer- Posts: 2011
- Joined: Jan 19, 2007
- Location: Vernon in spirit
-
Re: 1919 Diary ID
Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:39 pm
Hello again Pat,
Perhaps you could share with us the key objectives of, and you reasons for, these detailed researches into the Denn Diary Pages and his RN Service Record?
I ask as the recent quest to match people and vessels to his diary entries seems to have obscured any human angle. If a booklet or set of annotated notes should result from this research then who Denn was, (and what type of person he was, when placed in the context of that short diary period) could provide an ideal set of preliminary paragraphs or a short first chapter.
Have you considered using a calligraphic analysis of his writings? Accepting his commendable progress and advancement to his RN rank; it would not be easy to judge him or apply ‘scores’ to what can inferred from this Diary record, but it may well be worth placing some more emphasis on the missing human angle.
Bob
PS Any result from your inquiries to the Imperial Hotel at Sliema?
PPS One of the ex-RN contributors at RR, ‘Flymo’, is a resident of Malta. I don’t know him personally but it might be worth sending him a PM if you should have a particular errand or a need for some local information.
Perhaps you could share with us the key objectives of, and you reasons for, these detailed researches into the Denn Diary Pages and his RN Service Record?
I ask as the recent quest to match people and vessels to his diary entries seems to have obscured any human angle. If a booklet or set of annotated notes should result from this research then who Denn was, (and what type of person he was, when placed in the context of that short diary period) could provide an ideal set of preliminary paragraphs or a short first chapter.
Have you considered using a calligraphic analysis of his writings? Accepting his commendable progress and advancement to his RN rank; it would not be easy to judge him or apply ‘scores’ to what can inferred from this Diary record, but it may well be worth placing some more emphasis on the missing human angle.
Bob
PS Any result from your inquiries to the Imperial Hotel at Sliema?
PPS One of the ex-RN contributors at RR, ‘Flymo’, is a resident of Malta. I don’t know him personally but it might be worth sending him a PM if you should have a particular errand or a need for some local information.
BreathingOutOnTheWayUp- Posts: 1090
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